This is in no way intended to disparage the religion. I KNOW that the loony dirtbag does not speak for anyone who frequents this BBS, but what, if anything, should be done about insane Christian leaders like Pat Robertsin? He clearly makes it easy to turn one's back, if not outright despise, church teachings. It would do the church a great deal of good in PR if they would excommunicate or ostracize the dipsh**. In case you wonder why now and have been asleep, Robertsin claims that Haitians (none of whom are living today) made a deal with the devil to free themselves from French oppression and are paying for it with the earthquake. I don't have a link, but if the story made it into the 3 page San Antonio paper it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Excommunicate him from what? His own church? Most people just pity and ignore him like they would any other geriatric suffering from dementia. Don't forget that protecting his right to sound like an idiot, does the same for you and me.
I don't even know if Robertson can accurately be classified as a "fringe" element in today's Christian scene. To be sure, he is out there, but the drift lately has been toward "out there", and while most Christians are uncomfortable with Robertson's tirades (at least I hope they are) I doubt that most Christians object to his premise: that God punishes the wicked (and coversely, rewards the faithful).
The strange thing is that I have never identified with people like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. They somehow have these media platforms and say whatever comes to their mind and they get treated as some sort of spiritual authority. It seems Robertson has a habit of blaming people for the bad things that happen to them outside of their control. Maybe it is due to a misunderstanding he has of the nature of God. I don't know. The problem is there is no 1 voice that speaks for all of Christianity. It really isn't a problem, but there is no ruling organization that can censure him for the benefit of the rest of the world. There are many Christian pastors who strongly disagree with Robertson and say so to their churches. However, they don't have the media platform. If the news media went to ask for their opinion, they would give a well reasoned and understandable argument against Robertson. But that is not what the media wants to do. The "loonies" get to spew whatever venom comes up onto the TV, but no dissenting Christian view is presented. It almost seems like that is the point, to broadcast loony Christians so we can laugh at them and question the character of all those other Christians we live and work with but don't get to voice their every whim on TV. At the same time be aware that much of the aid to Haiti is coming from Christian organizations, churches, and individuals. Their will be and has been a multiplicity of prayers said by Christians around the world for the comfort and aid of Haiti. The natural reaction to the earthquake by people who believe what the Bible teaches is compassion and generosity. I do think that Robertson's statements come from the knowledge that mankind is sinful. That is true. As such we are being and will be judged for that sin as a race. The Bible does teach that when sin entered the world that chaos ensued producing things like physical death, sickness, natural catastrophe. So in the Biblical understanding none of us are "innocent" of the catastrophe that come upon us. At the same time, the Bible does not teach that God metes out suffering to us specifically for what we do. It would be incorrect Biblically to state that Haiti suffered this earthquake specifically because of some past action or present sin. I am not sure Robertson really understands what much of the Bible teaches. I say this because Jesus was asked about this whole issue and Jesus gives a much different answer. It is the definitive Christian answer. His answer answer is below. Luke 13 "13:1 Now there were some present on that occasion who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 13:2 He answered them, “Do you think these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered these things? 13:3 No, I tell you! But unless you repent, you will all perish as well! 13:4 Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower in Siloam fell on them, do you think they were worse offenders than all the others who live in Jerusalem? 13:5 No, I tell you! But unless you repent you will all perish as well!” The answer is simple. In God's sight, the Haitians are no worse than the rest of us around the world. The earthquake was not an indication of some "deal with the devil". In fact in other parts of the Bible, it states that God is harder circumstantially on believers than unbelievers. Maybe the God allowed the earthquake in Haiti because many there have great faith in Him? It is a possibility.
He certainly has a right to speak (just as the KKK does), but people also have the right to not only disagree with him, but step up and publicly decry his comments and ask that the world understand that he does not speak for either Christians or Americans. And yes, I do think it matters what the world thinks.
NickDanger, One reason I think more Christians don't speak out against PR is because they just don't take him seriously. They find him so irrelevant to what they believe and how they live and practice their faith, that they just don't feel a need to expend energy to denounce him. Also, most Christians have NO idea what PR says, unless a major media source reports it. They report it as a nutty saying, and Christians just nod in agreement.
Monahorns quoted Jesus; I'd say that's an appropriate response from Christian leadership. As for Robertson, I can honestly say I haven't given a thought to what he thinks about anything since the LAST time he said something weird enough to make national headlines, since that's the only time I ever hear what he says.
"Maybe the God allowed the earthquake in Haiti because many there have great faith in Him? It is a possibility." That's right the hand of god punished those bad old Haitians with earthquakes. That and aids for those gays. Nick the scary thing about nut cases like Robertson/Falwell is the hate they inspire in the name of Jesus. The furthest thing from being Christian.
Regardless of what many religions may say and do-- any human institution is prone to get things wrong-- focusing on Jesus and his teachings is the way to see how things should be. Most christians are too political and seen as hateful and judgemental. That's a shame since Jesus' actions and teachings point to the opposite.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe many people around this country and the world equate Christianity with people like Jerry Falwell or PR or Jimmy Swaggert. Just as many Americans equate muslims with terrorism. Many people around the world equate Americans with the personality of our current President.
AustinTejasFan, I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that Haiti was being punished for being bad. I was saying that it is possible that God allowed the earthquake due to their goodness or faith. Suffering is not a sign of God's disapproval of you. My point is that the opposite is often the case. CrazyFoo, I agree. When Colt went down, my first thought was "that's cruel". Then I remembered that God is not cruel but the situation sure was.
If the Haitians had made a pact with the devil they wouldn't have been living in an impoverished ******** all this time. I think ol' Beelzebub comes to the table with a better deal than that: a little bling, some nice weather, hot chicks, a sweet ride. Dude may be evil, but I think he generally aims to strike a reasonable bargain.
The Idea that God rewards those who are good and punishes those who are bad is not the Christian Gospel, but what is known as the 'social gospel' and has it's roots in the humanism of the early 20th century, and was full blown in mid century. The message of Christianity is quite the opposite. The Social Gospel is akin to the theological idea of 'karma.' Or that what goes around comes around. Christianity teaches that ALL people are sinners. All people are totally depraved. We are all bad, and we ALL deserve hell and seperation from God. The ONLY means of reconciliation with God through God's grace. We are saved not by any works or good deeds of our own, but rather based on God's good works on own behalf. Namely, God's redeeming work done through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. The perfect Saviour, fully man and fully God, who died on the cross shedding His blood to cover our sin, and reconcile us ot God. This doctrine of grace is the opposite of 'karma.' It says that we get what we do NOT deserve.
people need to be able to realize that there is a big difference between evangelical christians and other denominations. i will even throw in baptists and include them with evangelicals.
I believe that God does punish individuals for their horrible deeds. I knew a kid growing up who was a criminal, drug dealer, and basically just a piece-of-****. Kid died in a car accident about the time he was 20. Christians call it God's wrath... Buddhists/Hindus might call it Karma.
