Roof Damage in the MetroPlex (D-FW)

Discussion in 'Horn Depot' started by NCAAFBALLROX, Apr 21, 2011.


    NCAAFBALLROX 1,000+ Posts

    I am up here for a few inspections & have opportunities to fill in more work.If an HF members have any properties that need an inspection (we do commercial as well as residential, shingles, metal, tile & low slope / zero grade), please send me a PM or find me via our website:
    The Link

    We've done work for many HF members & I can provide an extensive reference list with a wide variety of customers.

    if you know someone who might need an inspection but you don't live in the MetroPlex, this counts as well... we pay $$ for completed insurance referrals.

    So far, it seems in the past 1.5 weeks there has been damage that I know of in:

    Carl's Corner
    Fort Worth
    North Richland Hills
    The Colony

    Thank you.


    NCAAFBALLROX 1,000+ Posts

    Well, we had a big night of hail all over the area. I heard of grapefruit sized hail in Grapevine, golf ball sized in Addison & I personally saw golf ball or larger in Dallas off Harry Hines... & I think it was much more widespread than this.

    Contact me if I can be of assistance.

  3. orangecat1

    orangecat1 500+ Posts

    speaking of roofs, maybe you can shed some light on something. I read these and fantasize about the $$, but I don't have a truck or ladder. Anyway, as I look at the Craigslist for part-time jobs for the summer(teacher), I see so many variations of the roof sales job.

    One guy went into great detail explaining how he's doing all of his jobs taking just insurance money, and his customers aren't paying a dime.

    So, I talked to a couple of friends, and sure enough both have gotten new roofs in the last couple of years without having to pay their deductible. One guy even got extras, a "whirlybird" vent and something else I can't remember.

    The other friend said he had to talk to at least 3 roofing companies before he got his deal, but he got it done.

    You might not go for this, but how prevalent do you think this practice is?

    Appears to be a "win, win, win" to me. Homeowner, free roof, roof salesperson, nice commision, roofer, steady stream of business.
  4. Dionysus

    Dionysus Admin Admin

    There was a brief hailstorm here in Katy in July of last year, and within a couple of days there were several roofing companies banging on doors all over Cinco Ranch. I told them all that I wanted a complete new roof and I wasn't paying a nickel out of pocket. No problem, done deal.
  5. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    Isn't that fraud?
  6. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    There was a guy who came by my place to say they work for whatever the insurance pays. I asked him to give me a bid and he said he works for whatever insurance pays.

    I asked him to give me a bid and he said pound sand and walked off. Pretty cool.
  7. AustinTejasFan

    AustinTejasFan 1,000+ Posts

    "Isn't that fraud?"

    Waiving the deductible isn't against the law according to Attorney General's opinion JM-1154.
  8. orangecat1

    orangecat1 500+ Posts

    so, how does this compare to auto insurance?

    I am an expert at auto claims. I have a wreck, if it's not my fault, the other insured pays or my uninsured pays an amount, I take that amount, get it mostly fixed, and put some cash in my bank account.

    Is this close to happening? example, the guy who only charges what insurance pays: Does the insurance company write a check to the homeowner? How is the roofer gonna know how much the insurance company paid? Why not just tell the roofer a number?

    This might be happening in my neighborhood. There are a bunch of roofs in my neighborhood that have missing shingles, and they aren't getting fixed.

    So, are these homeowners getting the $ and putting the money in the bank, or are they ignoring their damages?

    If this was actually happening, I could do very well $ wise.

    example, if I received a check for $2000-4000, whatever for a roof, I could call my roof repair guy, he would fix it for whatever amount. Right now he charges $150, goes to Home Depot or Lowe's, buys a package of shingles, and replaces shingles.

    The way I see it one package of shingles $150, multiply that X however many packages are needed.
  9. AustinTejasFan

    AustinTejasFan 1,000+ Posts

    "If this was actually happening, I could do very well $ wise. "

    Slow down there cowboy. There's still plenty of ways to get busted for insurance fraud. The LinkThe Link
  10. AustinTejasFan

    AustinTejasFan 1,000+ Posts

    "So, are these homeowners getting the $ and putting the money in the bank, or are they ignoring their damages? "

    There's nothing in any of the homeowners or personal auto policies approved for use in Texas that requires the policyholder to use the proceeds from a claim to actually repair their home/car.

    That's between the insured and the mortgagee/lien holder.

    NCAAFBALLROX 1,000+ Posts

    Before I forget: "whirlybirds" (turbines) are ****. Anyone who puts on on a customer's house without commentary or providing information to the customer is a jerk.
    Here it is in a nutshell (well, many nut shells):

    1. Prices are going UP right now. This is due to the instability of the fuel spot pricing markets. I am seeing prices adjust on a weekly basis for probably 2/3 of the components I use.

    2. Insurance co's have been suppressing prices (i.e. what they offer) for some time now. It's almost to the point where I am wondering if there is collusion in regards to roofing estimates on behalf of the insurers.

    3. If prices are going UP but you are being offered a "free" roof, then something has gone terribly wrong both in your supplied product or something else along the way.

    4. Where insurance fraud comes into play depends in a large measure on two parts:
    - A. How the policy is written & how the insurer pays the insured $$ to get the claim adjusted (i.e. a portion of $$ now / a portion of $$ later).
    - B. Whether the "roofer" (& I use this phrase very loosely) needs to ask the insurance co. for extra money because of a discrepancy in what they offered or covered (component list, measured size, etc). as well as a discrepancy in the allowed dollars.
    A + B = if the insurance co. is asked for a depreciation payment but the roofer didn't actually charge the customer their deductible, then that's fraud of insurance (& correct me if I'm wrong, but also wire variety as the invoice is sent by mail / Email / fax / envelope) & both the "roofer" AND customer
    are guilty.
    5. If the insurer hands a check for the total amount of the job estimate minus the deductible & washes their hands of the insured, then that's a whole different thing & THIS is where an "estimate" can be provided to a customer.

    You get what you pay for. I don't play the insurance deductible game & it offends me when the 1st thing out of someone's mouth is asking about deductibles.

    I put on a quality product, use quality components & use them in the right manner. @ The same time, I also offer many upgrades & performance improvements over & above what the common consumer has on their home (in other areas beyond the roof, as well). All of this is within the scope of the allowed insurance dollars.

    A "salesman" will take the roof work & move on, never to be seen again until it's time to collect a check.

    I, OTOH, meet with the insured to discuss the full scope of allowable damages within the boundaries of their policy coverage, meet with the adjusters, discuss specific components as well as ask for code compliance items that insurance is required to pay for & either work my projects myself or have a job superintendent who is separate from the crew.

    90% of these other guys lay out a sweet deal then skip off to the next customer... never to be seen again until they have to pick up a check.

    I have standards by which my crew operates & we do install a better product than all but about 3 or 4 co's I know (& these are smaller organizations where the QC is tighter; good friends of mine in the business).

    & That's MY stand on the issue. [​IMG]

  12. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    What do you mean by 'waiving the deductible'? Is it on the bill and then they just don't collect that part? Since it is 'waived'? It is hard to believe that isn't fraud.
  13. AustinTejasFan

    AustinTejasFan 1,000+ Posts

    "It is hard to believe that isn't fraud. "

    Bother to read the AG's opinion?
  14. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    yep, looks like fraud to me. Tell me again how it isn't fraud? What subsection in the links tells you it isn't fraud?
  15. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    One recent roofer described he would discount the overall price. Is that what is being alluded to on the AG mention links? I honestly didn't see anything that allows the insurance company to not know the discount was being taken. And if you didn't let the insurance company know that would be the fraudulent act I would guess.
  16. AustinTejasFan

    AustinTejasFan 1,000+ Posts

    "I honestly didn't see anything that allows the insurance company to not know the discount was being taken."

    I wouldn't suggest deceiving the insurer. And it's not a discount; it's a deductible.
  17. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

  18. orangecat1

    orangecat1 500+ Posts

    interesting update, I have some more serious damage than I've ever had before. The other day the wind was up big time, quite a few shingles came off. I called my insurance company, said I wanted to get them to help me decide whether it was big enough for a claim, and she gave me the number of a roofer she has been recommending.

    I call the guy(off-duty firemen roofers), and he puts on a little sales pitch, he went up on the roof, said there was some damage that you can't see, offered a solid patch job for $950, but told me he thinks the damage is enough for a claim. I didn't go any further with him, but called one of my friends who got a free roof. He will get me his roofer's name.

    In the meantime, I have a couple of questions.

    1. How long can you wait until you make a claim? It appears as though our neighborhood is the only neighborhood around here(McKinney) that got hit.

    I'm hoping to wait until the market cools a little. btw, my friend said he waited a number of months, but he advised to call the insurance company to see what they say.

    2. What is a good upgrade to try to get shingle wise? I noticed owens-Corning has a bunch of shingles labeled 110/130 mph. I'm guessing those shingles are a big upgrade from what we have now. We have a 2001 Fox and Jacobs home.

    In talking to my friend, he said he had a bunch of roofers approach him, and he simply stuck to his guns, saying all he wanted was a new roof, he wasn't paying a deductible, and he wanted a roof upgrade. He ended up getting his wish, + he got three turbines. The difference in his home and mine is that his home is a more expensive home, and his home was only 6 years old when he got his new roof. Mine is 11 years old now, and my friend was warning me about depreciation costs. He got his roof in 2010.

    Appreciate any info on what grade shingles to get. We plan to be in the home at least 10 more years.

    NCAAFBALLROX 1,000+ Posts

    The only limit to when you file the claim is that in most cases, you get up to one year from the date of loss (i.e. when the damage occurred) to have the work done. I have had many occasions where the insurance co. has allowed extra time to complete the work & still pay out their full depreciation payment & also in some cases @ any increased rates doe to changes in labor & parts from a year earlier (i.e. when the loss happened).

    As to the higher wind rated shingles, they are much more expensive (like 25 to 50% higher than the 'basic' 30 year type) & also require a proper sequence of 6 or maybe 8 nails per shingle (& the nails HAVE to be put in the right location of the shingle or one nail off could void the entire higher wind warranty).

    Fox & Jacob means nothing to me. What does mean anything is if you have a 3 Tab or Dimensional (didn't read back). More than likely it's a builder's grade (i.e. "cheapest") version of whatever type you have. The obvious exception is if you paid any upgrade for a better shingle but I have yet to see that done by any new home buyer.

    Your friend got screwed with turbines & the idiot "roofer" (i.e. salesman) who spec'd those was an idiot. 1 Turbine (cheapest variety) costs the same as 4 pieces of GAF Cobra III brand Ridge Vent.
    1 Ridge Vent = the air movement of 4 Turbines.

    Depreciation awareness is the concern of someone trying to cheat the system. I will stick to my statements above - by asking for & getting "no $$ out of pocket", a roofer has to falsify a document to the insurance co. stating they collected the deductible.

    On a $ 10,000.00 total claim where the roof is 5 years old (assuming 3 Tab / 20 year type shingle) with a $ 2,000.00 deductible, that means the insurer is holding back $ 2,500.00 from the depreciation payment & has paid $ 5,500.00 to the insured.

    $ 2,000 = deductible
    $ 5,500 = first payment / ca$h value (what was left in age, or 15 years)
    $ 2,500 = depreciation (what had already aged, or 5 years)
    $ 10,000.00

    If you're asking me for a "free" roof, you're asking me to give you $$ out of my pocket. I don't mind doing proper upgrades @ reduced charge or even free, but for customers who get a totally "free" roof, they also get shlt work as well with zero interest on the part of the "roofer" to get full market valuation for every required detail.

  20. orangecat1

    orangecat1 500+ Posts

    NCAA, sent you pm.

    NCAAFBALLROX 1,000+ Posts

    Ah, so we meet again.

  22. orangecat1

    orangecat1 500+ Posts

    Here's a little story I may have told on here before, maybe not. Late this spring, maybe three to four weeks ago, just as school was getting out, I saw an all-state claims adjuster in the neighborhood. I followed him to a house, and asked him a bunch of questions. (He seemed to enjoy the conversation, he was very informative)

    According to him, as soon as he gets up on your roof, you lose your no-claim discount. Even if the insurance company does not pay a claim, because of a high deductible, it is still considered a claim-therefore your no-claim discount disappears. (I have allstate, and the claims guy used to be a roofer)

    Another interesting item, the claims man said he's been to places where severe storms have hit and 3 tab designs are all laying out in the street, yards etc; and the architectural shingles haven't been touched. Architectural shingles ARE the real deal.

    Fast forward a couple of days later, I called my insurance agent, asked how much my no-claim discount was the answer was something in the 14-17% area. (I don't remember exactly)

    Another thing I asked the allstate guy was about roofers installing a new roof for nothing, just getting the insurance money. I explained about the house two doors down from me, I called the roofer because of the sign in the yard. The roofer told me it was an insurance job, the homeowner didn't pay a cent. (It was a three tab design, only took the roofers 6 hours or less to install)

    The allstate man said the roofer counting the sign as "advertising" was okay.

    iow, nobody can say how much business that sign generated. iow, it flies.

    Fast forward two weeks later, I get my renewal notice for my homeowner's insurance, and bam, the rate has increased $100 per year, from about $1300 ish to $1400 ish.

    So, I called my insurance person, told her "wow, just by virtue of us discussing the possibility of making a claim, the rate has gone up a hundred bucks!"

    She was really nice, and said she would take care of it, and put the rate back where it was.

    The bottom line, my strategy is changing to avoid any claim. I'm going to Lowe's and buy a bundle of shingles for $28 and have that ready after each windstorm. There are plenty of roof repair men available to patch roofs.

    Notice I didn't say roofer. I don't need a roofer, because I'm not going to need a new roof, unless this entire roof flies out of here one day, which it might!!
  23. omnipresent

    omnipresent 1,000+ Posts

    I love how people ask various contractors/insurance adjusters a few questions, read the internet, do "research" and suddenly, they know best.

    Your roofing system (not just shingles) is one of the most important parts of your it cheap and you will pay in the end.

    @NCAA - we may be competitiors, but I tip my hat to you for doing it the right way. Are you a member of the NTRCA?

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