Shhh! Don't use facts and logic to promote your point of view on this board unless it conveniently promotes the other opinion.
I bet the families of 911 would be rolling on the floor laughing their asses off just readin the posts on this board.
Anyone who believes the ends justify the means when the means involve destruction of our constitution is a bigger threat to our country than any terrorist could ever be.
mojo, stay on point. your irrational fear of socialist America doesn't need to be injected into this argument.
YoLaDu, Have you ever seen a video of someone being Waterboarded? If not here is a demonstration of FOX News reporter Steve Harrigan being waterboarded: Video: Steve Harrigan gets waterboarded on Fox
Wait, is this the same CIA that had intelligence about those nuclear weapons in Iraq? Or is this a different one?
Anecdotal evidence does little but create a selection bias. Torture should not be used, not merely because it is a violation of our ideals as Americans, but because it is not the best way to get information out of suspects. It is unreliable, even if it was not cruel and unusual.
American servicemen and women beat, tortured, maimed, humiliated, neglected and murdered detainees. There's not even a guarantee the information gleaned from torture is any more accurate. In at least one case, the bad information we had about Iraq was because of torture: an al Qaeda operative sent to Cairo and tortured became a source of false "evidence" cited by Bush administration officials that Iraq was training members of al Qaeda in the use of explosives, poisons and gases. (NY Times, 12/9/2005; cited in S. Miles, "Oath Betrayed," 2006, which has other examples of harm caused by false information generated by torture.) Ironically, I believe George Tenet's book points out the best and most reliable information we received in the aftermath of 9/11 came as a result of providing medical attention for a family member of a captive, in exchange for the information.
What i find most disheartening is that people are justifying the use of waterboarding Let's review moments in history where waterboarding was used. I guess some might like the company we are keeping, but i don't. Spanish Inquisition Khmer Rouge The Pinochet era in Chile The Japanese and the Gestapo in WWII
OK, the CIA is lying. nevermind. Oh, wait. What if they weren't lying? What if KSM fessed up with actionable intelligence about an impending attack like the CIA claims? An impending attack that was foiled, that led to the capture of 17 men who would likely have killed thousands. The government is using it very selectively, not indiscriminantly at all. He implied there would be an attack. “Soon, you will know.” The government should protect the greater good.
Look, if the Clinton administration had not neutered our entire intelligence apparatus none of this would have been necessary.
After 8 years of one disaster after the next, we know that Oilfield likes to point fingers and lay the blame anywhere but where it should actually reside. He should ask himself why Obama won the election, and he doesn't have to fight the truth. Someone needs to tell him that Clinton hasn't been President for nearly a decade.
Spanish Inquisition Khmer Rouge The Pinochet era in Chile The Japanese and the Gestapo in WWII ______________________________________________ really? you want to compare us to them...give me a break
general, McCain sure think so. I posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant over here too.McCain In reply to: "There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference. In reply to: "I would also hope that he would not want to be associated with a technique which was invented in the Spanish Inquisition, was used by Pol Pot in one of the great eras of genocide in history and is being used on Burmese monks as we speak," the Arizona senator said. "America is a better nation than that."
John McCain is such a tool. Using that assclown's opinion in an arguement with a true conservative is laughable.