supreme court decisions of late

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by huisache, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    the abortion opinion was released today and fits into the opinions of the last two weeks. A plurality strikes down the Louisiana law and the Chief Justice supplies the fifth vote by punting/concurring that the Louisiana law is identical to the Texas one they upheld and so stare decisis dictates that they ok this one.

    The dissents are from Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. Thomas says the right to an abortion does not exist in the constitution and the others sort of follow in his wake. Of interest is the argument about standing-----abortion providers brought the law suit, not people who have a right to abortions. The plurality says Louisiana waived any complaint it might have and Thomas takes that apart with a nice historical argument

    The opinions of the last two weeks were likewise all over the place with nice examples of balancing by looking the other direction

    What is clear to me is that the November election is one in which a big issue should be who gets to appoint the next Justice, because that person will either be the needed fifth conservative vote if Trump wins or the continuation of the current 4-1-4 type split that is producing so much confused law.
     
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  2. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    These opinions also show why Roberts and Kennedy got along so well.

    RBG and Breyer will retire around January 21 if Biden is elected, so the 4-1-4 will continue for the foreseeable future. I kind of look forward to what Mitch would say about confirmation hearings (assuming the GOP caucuses still hold a 51-49 or 52-48 majority). "Well, we need to hear the will of the people in 4 years before we can proceed on this..."

    Super-funny would be if there was a 50-50 tie and the hold-up would be whoever California or Illinois was waiting on to replace Harris or Duckworth to be the tiebreaker.
     
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I don't see how Cocaine Mitch holds up a vote. It was at least defensible on the Garland nomination. It won't be on an early nomination. I also don't think the motivation will be there for RBG or Breyer, because they won't shift the balance of the Court. That doesn't mean a GOP Senate will confirm their replacements. It'll become toxic in a primary, but I don't think they'll be able to avoid hearings and a vote.
     
  4. LHABSOB

    LHABSOB 250+ Posts

    What do you all think the order of retiring justices will be, presuming none of them pass away before retiring?
     
  5. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Ginsburg
    Breyer
    Thomas
    Alito
    Roberts
    Sotomayor
    Kagan
    Kavanaugh
    Gorsuch
     
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  6. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Honestly, Ginsburg has made me support having a mandatory retirement age for judges. Make it 70 or 75. I do not think she has written her own opinions in years as the quality has noticeably gone down. We cannot have a vegetable on the court. A mandatory retirement age is not discriminatory to the right or the left. I actually think an incapacitated judge and some law clerk having free reign is worse than a bad judge.

    On another note, Kagan has surprised me as being a far better judge than Sotomayor. I thought it would be the reverse when they were appointed. Even though Kagan clearly leans to one side, she will stick with the Constitution over partisanship on some matters. Sotomayor and Ginsburg seem unable to do that.

    I have no idea what Roberts is doing now other than taking over for Ayatollah Kennedy.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  7. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    That's offensive to vegetables.

    Instead of age limits, they should just have term limits. If Reps are 2 and Senators are 6, just make federal judges 10 with no reappointments. Our country isn't "young" enough any longer to worry about qualified candidates. Trump picked Gorsuch and Kavanaugh from a Federalist Society handout that has over 500 "must watch" individuals on it.

    Thomas will become the "RBG" in that he'll be the most senior member and leftists will hope he's the one who drops. I think he's a pretty healthy 72. I was surprised that Alito was already 70.

    Breyer has actually wanted to retire for a while and was going to drop that hint with Kennedy if/when Clinton had been elected. I don't think RBG had any desires to retire before the 2016 Trump election, even if many think she should.
     
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  8. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I hope this isn’t turning into an EarlWarren situation with Roberts. Eisenhower said Warren was his biggest regret. Warren was a Republican. I think he even ran as a VP candidate. But, he flipped and became a liberal On the Supreme Court.
     
  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I don't think he's turning into Earl Warren. I think he is turning into Anthony Kennedy. What's baffling is that since 1969, Democrats have gotten only 4 Supreme Court appointments. Republicans have gotten 15. Despite that, we still get a lot of crap jurisprudence when it comes to cultural issues.

    Here's why. Nixon appointed a liberal (Blackmun), two moderates (Powell and Burger), and one conservative (Rehnquist). Ford appointed one moderate who became liberal when he got old (Stevens). Reagan appointed two moderates (O'Connor and Kennedy), one conservative (Scalia), and promoted a conservative to Chief (Rehnquist). Bush I appointed one moderate who became liberal (Souter) and one conservative (Thomas). Bush II appointed a conservative who became moderate (Roberts) and a conservative (Alito). Trump appointed one conservative (Kavanaugh) and a conservative who was obviously drunk when he decided the tranny case (Gorsuch).

    We're just not very good at this.
     
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  10. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Interesting Deez. I wonder if the a Democrats have bullied him into becoming more liberal with their threats to expand and then pack the court? Perhaps he thinks he’s protecting the integrity of the court by playing liberal.
     
  11. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    a coruple of feminist writers I follow say Roberts did them no favors. He sided with the Gang of Four because of stare decisis but also said that the merits of Roe/Casey were not on the table in this case and so the wisdom or lack thereof of the putative constitutional right to abortions was not up for debate on this case. The clear implication being that in the proper case where the issue is raised he would vote that the right is not in the constitution. For them, that was very scary because there are some abortion cases coming up where the issue was raised and will be decided.

    I completely missed that when I read his concurring opinion. I hope Justice Thomas gets to write that opinion.
     
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  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I don't think he has been directly bullied. I think a few things are in play. First, he's probably a lot like the guy who appointed him and his family. He's a business-oriented, country club, establishment conservative. He clearly leans Right on social issues, but they don't motivate him to take a stand.

    Second, culturally he's an East Coast, corporate guy. He's from New York (though not NYC), went to Harvard (for undergrad and law school), and has always worked in DC. Even among non-leftists, there's a culture in DC that's not conducive to taking the side of social conservatives. He's surrounded by DC legal circles and media figures. Probably 95 percent of his friends are liberals. Few are encouraging him to go Right on cultural issues.

    Third, he's because he's an establishment conservative, he's not gonna be a big fan of Trump. To compound the problem, Trump goads him in public. He doesn't make it easy for Roberts to agree with him.
     
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  13. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    This kind of describes Austin. Most Republicans can't see the drift in their own personal views. It is like swimming in the ocean; you look up and your parents are way up the beach and you wonder how you got so far away from them.

    I'll say this, I've drifted Left but much of the reason is the redneck element in Texas. I just can't stand it. The bravado and ignorance is a huge problem for me.
     
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  14. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I know many conservatives who went to DC in their early to mid-20s to work in public policy or government. Very few of them are conservatives today, and those who are keep it very quiet.
     
  15. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Not surprised.

    The voting booth THEORETICALLY remains the sanctuary of truth.
     
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  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Something about Lot and his family moving to Sodom and Gomorrah.... I do not even understand how people live in Austin (especially with the traffic), much less D.C.
     
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  17. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    The traffic's not that b... aw who am I kidding. It still takes me longer to go 3 miles in Austin than it does 20 miles in DFW or Houston. As much as I love Austin, other cities have developed their own little "enclaves" that mirror a lot of what I like about Austin.

    Perhaps during construction, they can just carve out a little bunker for me in the Moody Center basement and I'll pop up for the games during retirement.
     
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  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

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  19. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.
     
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  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I definitely see the appeal to Austin and DC. Both cities have tons of cool things to do and see, have great restaurants, and plenty of "cool" people. And of course, if you're a single dude, there are plenty of bars and college chicks in both. They're fun places to live. (And unlike Austin, DC has very good public transportation, so though the traffic is hideous, you may not have to sit in it.) I'm sure Sodom and Gomorrah were fun places too, whether you dig the man trains or not.

    However, they're politically liberal and libertine. If you're not very solid in your beliefs and principles, it's easy to get pulled into the culture and let it define your beliefs. That's especially true in DC, because the government and media are so dominant and entrenched there. You've heard me talk about my friend who works for the FBI. When he left Texas, he was a staunch ideological conservative and a bit of a Texas nationalist. Now he's a Democrat and a firm swamp-believer. Why? Two reasons. First, the GOP turned him off quite a bit with some of their stupidity and ****-flinging. Second, he's surrounded by liberals. All of his friends are liberals. (Hell, he knows James Comey, Peter Strzok, and Lisa Page personally and generally likes them.) All of his coworkers are liberal. Every news outlet he sees is liberal. After being there for 15 years, that makes an impact.
     
  21. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    If I read this thing correctly, Liberals didn't want kids from private schools to get scholarships from universities that receive federal funding.

    So here is choice for a Liberal:

    The choice to be able to murder a viable baby in the womb AND for us productive taxpayers to pay for it.

    But no choice for high school. If you choose to send your child to a religious private school AND pay for it yourself, they would have been denied ANY scholarship regardless of how much they applied themselves, how high their GPA and SAT/ACT scores were or any other criteria used for the awards.
     
  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    For them, opposing school choice is all about keeping the teachers unions intact.
    Dems fund a tremendous amount of campaigns off their dues alone
    That's the primary reason they fight school choice so hard - they dont have an alternative funding option as great as that
    Thus, they care more about the teachers (or their money to be precise) than they do the students themselves
     
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  23. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    It is about teacher unions, but there's a deeper agenda as well. If parents have school choice, government schools lose their monopoly on indoctrination of children. That would have major long-term cultural implications that dwarf even the impact on teachers unions.
     
  24. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Looking back, that may be the biggest single source of our problems today
     
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  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Kagan is "running things" now?
    Heaven help us

     
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Nah. Roberts has been a ***** since the Obamacare ruling.
     
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  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  28. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    yep, like I said, once they took away school prayer everything else was a piece of cake.
     
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Another "shoulda been a no-brainer." If putting a little unelected führer in charge of an agency with that kind of power and lack of accountability doesn't violate separation of powers, I'm not sure what would.
     
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Harvard Law prof
     

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