supreme court decisions of late

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by huisache, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Hmmm, one of the few disagreements I have with you but I think the public is being projected here onto the politician. I seriously think everything the public may ‘want’ is produced (to the extent it is even realized as such) at triple the cost necessary. This being due to purely govt greed, inefficiency, and yep, stupidity.
     
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  2. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Well, the politician is a representative of the public, so yes, I do project the public onto the politician. It's called the House of Representatives for a reason.

    You are correct that much of what the government buys is at ridiculously high cost. That is true. I'm moving to the UK next month. Though I'm doing everything I can to make it a cheap and easy process (for the government's benefit as well as my own), I know the moving company is going to ***-rape the taxpayer (and me since I'll be taxed on their costs), because they can. It's outrageous. Howevers, stuff like that isn't driving our budget problems. Even if everything the government did was as cheap and efficient as possible, we'd still be in serious fiscal trouble.

    We're in fiscal trouble, because of federal entitlements. They are about 4x as big of a cost as the military is. While there's undoubtedly some waste in those programs, they're pretty simple and straightforward. It's the government writing out checks to people.

    So why don't we reform those programs to make them cheaper? Is it the politicians? No. The Congressional Budget Office and multiple commissions have recognized the problem for decades and come up with suggestions to improve the situation. However, anytime reform is actually attempted, the public shits its pants, and the reformers lose.

    So why don't we do something to make the government take in enough money to fund the programs at they are? Two reasons. First, as a practical matter, we could never raise taxes enough. The programs are just too big. Second, the public would **** its pants if Congress raised their taxes to any significant degree to even make tax hikes a part of any reform.

    So yeah, we have big deficits because the public demands a lot more government than it's willing to pay for.
     
  3. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Apparently not. Take the Mississippi flag change or gay marriage. It was made quite clear in both cases that the powers that be, whether it was the supreme court or the mississippi state legislature, did NOT want the people voting on it because they may vote the "wrong" way. I saw a lot of people commenting on the internet "good, people should not vote on things." #democracy. I agree everyone cannot vote on everything, but some things should be put to a popular vote since you do not need to be an expert for people to voice their opinions on fundamental things such as how marriage is defined or whether a state flag should be changed.
     
  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I would actually be best classified as conservative southern democrat, like what existed before Nixon, but my party literally does not exist anymore. It is why I end up voting 33% republican, 33% democrat and 33% none of the above. I generally identify more with modern republicans than democrats, but I really am not a republican. People generally assume I am a republican then are shocked when I am for things like strong anti-trust enforcement or banning airbnb from apartment complexes and suburban neighborhoods. I am actually not entirely anti-unions. I think there needs to be balance between labor and management and problems start when things get too one-sided either way. Unions got out of control in the auto industry for example. On the other hand, unpaid internships are complete BS and EVERYONE should get paid for work, even if it is just minimum wage. A lot of people who have a problem with confederate statues have no problem with getting free labor from college kids and that's nonsense. 99% of the time they can afford to pay that part time intern minimum wage. I'll also add that if management had taken care of all of their employees' healthcare, obamacare would have never happened.
     
  5. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    With respect to gay marriage, you're right. The Supreme Court took that away. However, you have a remedy on the Mississippi flag. Elect officials who will put the old flag back. Like I've said before, I favor taking down Confederate symbols and flags, but I never support doing so violently or outside the political process. Mississippi can fly the swastika if they want to. Seattle can fly the hammer and sickle if they want to.

    The federal budget deficit isn't being forced on us like gay marriage is. We're enforcing with our stupidity and selfishness.
     
  6. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Magic Johnson doesn't have HIV/AIDS.
     
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  7. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Actually, my point on this was not so much about the confederate thing, but about the state flags in general. Gay marriage is a good comparable item.

    Something involving complicated policy, like banking regulations, it makes sense to have a legislature decide with input from lobbies.

    When it comes down to marriage or what your state flag is (it could be any flag, not State of Mississippi specific), there's no reason to not to leave that to direct democracy.

    Yes, we could have legislatures decide everything or we could direct democracy everything. However, I like the balance of having a legislature decide most things and having referendums for major items like gay marriage or flags. Yes, I think "what our state flag should be" should always be a popular referendum (especially when the state had a popular referendum on it less than 20 years ago). On things like that, skipping around the popular referendum seems like a subversion of democracy to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  8. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I got this from you and honestly, I still have not had anyone give me a good explanation as to how his wife does not have aids.

    On airbnbs though, it is total horsec*** when someone puts them in an apartment or a non-vacation area neighborhood. Hotels exist for a damn reason. Hotel regulations exist for a reason. Residential areas exist for a reason. A regular person does not choose to live in a neighborhood or apartment complex to have a hotel above them with new people who stay up until 4 am partying on weeknights. I have first hand experience signing a 13 month lease at a high dollar, perfectly nice apartment complex and 4 months in a neighbor decides to convert the apartment above to an airbnb. It was a miserable experience. No one is a purely residential area should have to put up with a popup hotel. If you cannot afford build a hotel, then do not go into the hotel business. I would like to own the Dallas Cowboys, but I realize I cannot afford them so Im not going to try to make some type of asinine scheme of setting up stadium lights and speakers in my backyard and paying people to play football there.

    I have had the librarians go "these people are just trying to make money". Well drug dealers, prostitutes and thieves are also just trying to make money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  9. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    On another point on the flag, I am tired of in general (not just flags) people vote for the R or D and the the Rs and Ds do something without popular support because they know it will not be enough to get them taken out of office. In general, they are supposed to be following the popular opinion of who they represent on EVERY item.... not "I'll follow popular opinion on just enough items to get elected then ignore the people I represent on everything else."
     
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not sure. I've never been a big fan of direct democracy. It invites special interests to launch campaigns to score a policy victory on superficial slogans. I'm not saying I'm per se hostile to it, but I'm a bit of a skeptic.

    I love how you just rolled with this random thought. lol The excuse I've always heard is that he used condoms with his wife, which kept her from getting it. So he used condoms with his wife (which is safest sex a guy can have) but didn't use condoms when he was banging strippers and hookers (or big, freedom-pouch-wearing dudes according to Isaiah Thomas) (which is obviously the most dangerous sex a guy can have). How much sense does that make? Do we like to wear condoms? Hell no. We friggin' hate them. Not having to wear them is one of the reasons we get married. Obviously it's not the only reason, but it's a reason.

    Why wouldn't you just leave this to local communities and apartment complexes? It seems like that would be the best level at which to make such a rule.
     
  11. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    The people aren't in power. Democracy is a smoke screen. Our school system is controlled by the providers and unions leaders.

    Destroy the ‘Public’ Education System | National Review

    People have some influence but the levers of real power have been pulled away by those who are really in control. The only thing that will help is choice but that won't exist within the current system.
     
  12. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Public schools suck because it run by left wing bureaucrats. Parents have no real choice. That is why it sucks. Quit trying to smear and start talking through specifics.

    All you do if blame parents, but not those who set up the system. Voting doesn't equal power. The people who get the positions do what they want , there is no transparency. Because of that and the ability to take as much money as they can through taxes means there is no accountability.

    But you keep blaming parents, especially those who are poor and working class, who are literally being held in a ghetto type situation.
     
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  13. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    You left out where politicians don't explain what the true cost is. You also left out that Congress doesn't even propose budgets anymore. They don't function as they are supposed to. Also, the Fed system is what allows Congress to spend money they don't have. They are complicit. Voters share some blame but it is secondary.
     
  14. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    That is a start but pretty meaningless. You have to know their political philosophy and what effect they have actually had on the school system. Good luck figuring that second part out.

    You must hate capitalism then. There is nothing wrong with parents making the best decision for their children. That is how we all operate if we are honest. And that doesn't mean you screw everyone else. A system where there is freedom and choice means people get to direct the system and the best outcomes overall will occur. That is a far cry from screwing everyone else.

    We don't have the right people in power. Sounds like every socialist revolutionary to me. Public school is a socialistic organization in our country. It is direct government provision of education. If it isn't then nothing is socialism as long as there is a vote involved.
     
  15. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Let me add another way the system is corrupt. Federal tax dollars are now required to fill the budgets of local schools. That means schools must do what the Federal government wants them to do. That means they are beholden to career, unelected DOE bureaucrats who are most likely social justice warrior socialists.

    No amount of voting or care will change that.
     
  16. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    What will it take for us to nominate/confirm someone who is not from these East Coast schools? I think that is our problem. Being Conservative in an East Coast circle is far from being actually conservative.

    And I agree...Trump has been a dope on this. His antagonistic nature is costing us more than it is getting us.
     
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  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    It's pretty much assumed that a Supreme Court nominee will be from an Ivy League law school like Yale or Harvard and will come from a government and/or academic professional background. You can find a few real conservatives in those circles, but they're hard to come by and getting even harder to come by. If you want to change that, you could look for nominees who come from the state court systems and from private practice.

    But of course this would have its limitations as well, because private practice doesn't always reflect politics. For example, I'd be very conservative as a justice, but you'd never know it from my private practice work. I was a personal injury lawyer who frequently represented illegal immigrants. Looking at that background, how many would assume I was a conservative? Damn near none.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Trump got a bad ruling in the tax return case
     
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  19. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    True. At least most of this stuff is going back down to the lower courts. He'll be able to stall until after the election.
     
  20. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    • Funny Funny x 2
  21. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    Congrats. Is a lifetime supply of meth enough in reparations?
     
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  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    We can tell the education bureaucrats and the teacher unions to go screw themselves anytime we want. They didn't seize power by a violent coup, and they don't hold their power by force. They got it by people WE elected giving it to them by passing laws and appropriating money for them. If we want to, we can elect people who can just as easily take that power and money away. We just choose not to do that, and ultimately that is the point you're glossing over. You blame the nebulous "system" like the systemic racism people do, but ultimately the people we choose create, enable, and reinforce that system.

    I don't blame parents specifically. I blame voters generally. It's our fault, and our negligence.

    They can only take what we let them take. Our politicians set the tax rates, not them. For property taxes, the appraisals are set by unelected people, but who created that system? The politicians we elected. Get new politicians, and take that power away from those unelected people.

    Secondary?? LOL. I'm no fan of the Fed, but they aren't the biggest driver of the deficit. That is just silly. Politics and the unwillingness of our political heroes to cut spending is the biggest driver of the deficit, and they are unwilling, because we are. The Fed plays its games to account for our unwillingness.

    Let's also keep this in mind. Like the education bureaucrats you detest (and rightly so), the Fed didn't steal its power and doesn't hold it by force. Again, our political heroes gave it to them. They can take it back anytime they want by repealing the Federal Reserve Act. But suppose they did. What would happen if Congress took over the monetary policy? They'd play the same shenanigans with the money supply that the Fed does to keep borrowing costs down to make up for our unwillingness to pay for the government we demand.

    Then ask them their political philosophy and look at what they're doing to see if it matches. But again, let's just start by showing up and learning their names. You're lamenting that our voters aren't doing trigonometry or linear algebra. I'm asking them to just do single digit addition.

    No, I love capitalism. However, we're not talking about capitalism. We're talking about public schools. Those are a government program, and if we're going to have them, people should give a crap.

    Yes, I get that, but we've decided to have a public education system. It actually used to do a passable job, before we started screwing it up.

    Hmm. Why are there federal dollars in it, and why is there a Department of Education? Oh yeah, the politicians we elect decided to do that. That's on us too.

    And is that stuff forced? Nope. Our state legislators choose to take that federal money. They don't have to do that.
     
  23. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Okay we can. Why don't we? It isn't because we are lazy or careless. How would a voter know which candidate would do the "right" thing when in office? What is the "right" thing to improve schools. Will teacher's unions allow that? Do we have any way to force administrators to do the opposite of what teacher's unions want? Do you know what school administers are trained to do? Do you have any insight into what our universities are teaching people who want to be principals and administrators? I have a little bit of insight because my wife worked in the UT education department for a while. They teach them Political Correctness, Critical Race Theory, LGBTQ+ activisim, etc. They don't pick candidates who have the best grades or aptitudes. They get picked by racial quotas and if they are friends with someone who is already a principal or administrator. No voter has any power of that. None. This isn't me believing the intangible systemic badness of schools. If that isn't clear by now, you may have blind spot.

    Ultimately people do what they are given incentives to do. As parents we want teachers to do their jobs well. We want administrators who are their to facilitate that with various resources and to support the teachers and their attempt to control the students. No one. From the teachers on up are held accountable to what parents want. They are controlled by their loyalties to other educators, to unions, to political movements, and to those who lobby administrators for the right to sell books and curricula.

    But we get to vote for school board members. If you don't go through the system or get certificates you either won't be allowed to run or you will be buried by newspapers and other educators who want to keep status quo.

    This is part of the problem. Young adults and parents with grown children shouldn't be voting on how other peoples' children are educated. They sure as hell shouldn't be paying for it.

    Show me what new politicians will do that and I will vote for them. The problem is even those who promise to cut taxes or change the system to make it freer, don't follow through when they are in power. The pressure is too strong to sell out for a vast majority.

    I agree with most of what you say here. But I said voter influence is secondary not the Fed. The Fed does follow what the Federal Gov wants. I agree with that. My point is that the Fed is the tool that allows the FedGov to do want they want. Yes Congress can repeal the Fed and balance the budget and cut spending. My issue is that I can't find any politician who will even talk seriously about that.

    Or we could have schools that are held accountable through the market mechanism. That would be a much better system.

    Who is we? I think the history of how we got public schools and how they are run is very interesting but it has little to do with "we" or even the normal people of the time.


    Name me a politician who has even TALKED about getting rid of the Dept of Education? Perry is it. He was laughed off the stage and is now a Trump lackey. The only candidates that would even consider cutting off federal funding or ending the DOE are libertarians. Aren't many around. Those that are have been labeled as wackos and extremists. State Legislators accept the money because based on the system we have they can't fund the schools without it. That wasn't always the case. But did state legislators ask the federal government to create the DOE and send their money back to them? No. That scheme as far as I know was forced on them.
     
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  24. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    • Funny Funny x 4
  25. Garmel

    Garmel 2,500+ Posts

    You can't evict Bubba out of his trailer. That's just too cold, man. Besides, Bubba might move to Texas regardless of your warning just to spite all of us and I don't think any of us want that. You will have cursed us and the lands of Texas forever, JF
     
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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    It's already happened
    Local news was there for the video

    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Here is a map of my new back 40

    [​IMG]
     
  28. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    My sentiments exactly.
     
  29. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    I may have to rinse my mouth and wash my hands after typing this post.

    1. What's a freedom pouch?
    2. Why not a Justice that's from UT law? It's highly thought of, no?
    3. I did like that McGirt ruling saying that about 1/2 of Oklahoma is still Indian Country.
    4. Looking forward to seeing Trump's taxes. :)
     
  30. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    We must be cousins. This validates tribal sovereignty. I support that. The law was clear. The downside and the only real argument that the state made was that putting the toothpaste back into the tube that's been out for well over a century is impossible. "At the end of the Trail of Tears was a promise."
     

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