Taxpayers angry amount of refund is down.

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Horn6721, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    "Average tax refunds were down last week 8.4 percent for the first week of the tax season over the same time last year, according to the Internal Revenue Service. Dipping refunds are inflaming a growing army of taxpayers stunned by the consequences of the Trump administration’s tax law — and the effects of the partial government shutdown.

    The average refund check paid out so far has been $1,865, down from $2,035 at the same point in 2018, according to IRS data. Low-income taxpayers often file early to pocket the money as soon as possible. Many taxpayers count on the refunds to make important payments, or spend the money on things like home repairs, a vacation or a car.

    The IRS had estimated it would issue about 2.3 percent fewer refunds this year as a result of the changes in the federal tax law, according to Bloomberg. MSNBC reports that 30 million Americans will owe the IRS money this year — 3 million more than before Trump’s tax law.

    “There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next month,” Edward Karl of the American Institute of CPAs told Politico. “Taxpayers want a large refund.” Some 71 percent of taxpayers received refunds last year worth about $3,000 on average, according to Karl.

    Scads of taxpayers are complaining on Twitter that they have always received a refund — but now owe the IRS instead.

    The number of refunds sent out by the IRS was also down — about 24 percent — as the agency struggled to get up to speed after the government shutdown. The agency sent out about 4.67 million tax refunds in the week ending Feb. 1, compared with about 6.17 million in the same period in 2018, according to IRS data.

    This year’s filing season, which began two days after the shutdown ended on Jan. 25, is complicated because it’s the first after the 2017 tax law was enacted. Though President Donald Trump boasted that the new code would be so simplified that people could file their taxes on a postcard, that’s not the case.

    In addition, the changes complicated payroll withholding, so that not enough money was withheld by employers in many cases, meaning that people now owe more taxes. The new law also capped IRS deductions for paid state and local taxes, including real estate taxes, resulting in a nasty surprise for many filers. Several other deductions are no longer allowed.

    The frustrations will likely continue to fuel support for plans to boost taxes on the ultra-wealthy. A poll last month found that nearly 60 percent of registered voters support a plan by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to impose a 70 percent marginal tax rate on the portion of annual income that exceeds $10 million a year.

    Maybe I am stupid but the object for me has always been to never get a refund or get as small a one as possible. That means I overpaid the Fed who had use of MY money all year.I would rather pay than let them have my money free.
    Are people really this dumb? The ones who use their refund for vacations etc should realize they just could have saved an amount every paycheck and made interest on it.
    I do understand the new payroll withholding and now having to pay when you didn't before is a legit complaint. The law capping state and local taxes at 10,000. is not likely to have affected most taxpayers complaining their refund is less.

    People, do not let the gov't use your money for a year and then complain. Keep the money yourself and pay in April.
  2. Garmel

    Garmel 1,000+ Posts

    Man, people can be so damn stupid.
  3. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Waaah, waaah, waaah.

    Look at the amount of tax you owe, not the size of your refund. I have not one ounce of sympathy for any idiot who is so stupid they can't even do that. I have even less regard for the ******** at Huffpost who are reporting the (non)story this way.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Every lib media is reporting this and not one has pointed out that the paychecks were larger which means the idiots did keep more of their own money .
    Yes there will be some who will have to pay more due to some changes but the vast majority got more money every week.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 1,000+ Posts

    Don't rely on the media to understand how the majority of Americans feel.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I hope you are right.
  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Some of this is stupid people who don't understand that it's better to have a lower tax liability than a big refund. However, I'm sure that some people who live in high tax states saw a tax increase.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Yes, people are this stupid. Note they don’t tell you the change in actual tax% of their gross or adjusted income.
  9. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    So, what Trump should have done is put in a clause that required employers to over-withhold all year, and then the refunds would be larger. Seriously, that would have worked.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. UTChE96

    UTChE96 1,000+ Posts

    I had a lower tax rate on more income this year. Gross tax rate went down by 0.6%. Not a huge amount but better than paying more.
  11. HornHuskerDad

    HornHuskerDad 5,000+ Posts

    I'm with you, 6721. In the perfect world, I would end up owing the maximum amount possible without incurring a penalty for underpayment. Since I can't estimate the stock market that accurately, if I end up within $500 either way, I'm happy.

    Also, as you pointed out, these people received lower withholding after the tax bill passed - so they reduced the amount they loaned the government interest-free. Sure hope someone will make that fact clear to everyone.
  12. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Gentlemen, this is the absolute truth: I made more money in 2018 than 2017, owed less taxes overall and got a higher refund. Also, I was no longer subject to the AMT tax. I've paid a bit related to AMT each year for many years.

    The media is focusing on refunds. Typically, they find the negative. They don't say anything about tax planning once the rates were published early in 2018. I did my homework. I over-withheld but I wanted to be sure there were no surprises.
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  13. Monahorns

    Monahorns 1,000+ Posts

    Not me. My taxes doubled under the new system. Screw Paul Ryan.
  14. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 1,000+ Posts

    Damn, you either need a smaller house or a better job.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I feel like anyone making financial decisions based on their refund probably doesn't know a whole lot about finances or tax laws to begin with. But this is a pretty good example of how no one has been educated on how taxing and refunds work. People have been conditioned by the government to see taxation as sort of like a short-term savings plan, so they don't notice how much is being taken out of their paycheck, just that they get a few hundred dollars back at the end of the year. It's kind of like credit card companies convincing you that if you'll spend more money, you'll get more points to buy stuff, and cash back!

    Notice how HuffPo is so good at spinning a completely unrelated talking point. Remember when journalism wasn't about speculation? Not anymore!

    "I didn't get a refund this year! We need to tax billionaires!" Yeah... I'm sure that's the first thing everyone thought.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    MY wife was angry because we owe an additional $3000. I e1xplained to her that the tax rate was lowered and that my employer was taking a whole lot less out of my paycheck every two weeks, but that didn't work. Finally I got out last year's return and showed her that even with the $3000 we owe, we're actually paying thousands less in total taxes than 2017. She begrudgingly agreed.

    So, yeah, I think there will be a lot of knee jerk reactions. I'm sure that CNN and MSNBC will be fanning the flames to stir up dissatisfaction.

    I've never understood the mindset that it's better to let Uncle Sam hold your money and use it throughout the year than for you to keep the money and use it yourself . I guess if you're so weak willed and impulsive that you can't control yourself, maybe overpaying is a very poor solution.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  17. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Do you have a lot of children? I can see how a large family would lose some money because the old personal and dependent exemptions have been eliminated. These are offset to the extent of the almost doubling of the standard deduction (assuming you don't have enough deductions to itemize).

    I gave up the house in my divorce so I'm a renter. I filed Head of Household as I care for my son. The tax reform was GREAT for me personally.
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Yeah, I noticed that. It's pretty clear that the primary goal of the article wasn't to inform readers about the reduction in tax refunds or provide insight on the impact of the tax bill but to make the tax bill and the GOP look bad.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    No doubt. Yet the media gets all huffy about Trump attacking them. It's really a sad state of affairs. The lines have been drawn and as far as I'm concerned the media impact is that of an aggressive cheerleader.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. UTChE96

    UTChE96 1,000+ Posts

    Not sure how that is possible unless you had a ridiculous amount of SALT taxes or a ginormous mortgage..
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Not double but I expect to pay more this year too. That SALT cap effed the coastal states which already on average were net payers in federal taxes vs. benefits received.
    • Like Like x 1
  22. UTChE96

    UTChE96 1,000+ Posts

    Yes, that's true. There were winners and losers. Not surprisingly, the losers were located in blue states. I do think it is fair to expect a high income earner in California or NY to pay similar gross federal tax rates as a similar high income earner in Texas, Nevada, or Florida.

    Obama's 3.8% investment tax also screwed a lot of folks who were net payers in federal taxes vs benefits received. But it's weird how I never heard any complaints from the left on that one. Same can be said for Bill Clinton's tax hikes, but again no complaints from the Left.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    I keep wishing year after year that at least one of the commercials come tax season would be a reminder that big refunds typically mean you need to adjust your withholding so you were not giving the government a free loan and that a refund proves that point.

    Each year, I am disappointed. Instead, we have an industry built around short-term, high-interest 'refund anticipation' loans. Ironically, many of those likely cost more than what a payday loan would have cost the same saps...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Monahorns

    Monahorns 1,000+ Posts

    Yeah. Well. My house is as small as you can find in my neighborhood. Always open for a better job though.
  25. Monahorns

    Monahorns 1,000+ Posts

    Eliminating exemptions is a large part of it but not all. But that is why Paul Ryan is to blame, the increased deduction and child tax credits weren't near enough to cover for eliminating exemptions. The Republicans really hurt working families with this new system.
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 1,000+ Posts

    Nope. I live in Texas.
  27. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    This is prima facie evidence that no matter what type of social engineering and wealth transfers a government tries to use, stupid people will quickly lose any money they acquire to smarter (and often less scrupulous) people.

    In other words, economic stratification is the natural order of things and will never be erased.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 1,000+ Posts

    Your doing something wrong. Over 80% of taxpayers got a break.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. UTChE96

    UTChE96 1,000+ Posts

    Yeah, something sounds wrong. Suggest you go to a CPA to do your taxes. If your taxes doubled then you should at least know the reason.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I preferred the exemptions, but the expanded child tax credit and lower rates should certainly keep your tax bill from doubling. Something's missing in this equation.
    • Agree Agree x 2

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