There were many Big 12 (and LHN) apologists who argued that midmajors TCU and WVU would be an upgrade over Aggie (and the others). Well, since joining a real conference, both new teams have losing records in conference (2-4 and 3-4), are in the bottom half (6th and 7th), neither are close to being ranked, and TCU still can't fill a 38,000 seat stadium, while WVU drags the overall a academic ranking down to SEC level. Meanwhile, Aggie is the toast of college football, sells out a 90,000 seat stadium, and is in the Top 10. Nebraska is also 8-2, ranked and still one of the Top 10 programs all time. Yep, this Big 12 thingy is sure awesome. Love all those games against schools in the bottom 20 in all-time losing percentage in small stadiums is dusty towns outside of nowheresville. Maybe if we are lucky we can get 2 more midmajors to join us so our name actually fits. Louisville and Boise -- woo hoo!
I shouldn't have clicked on this thread. I was hoping for an upgrade, but this is the same old whiny bs.
Zona, I hear you, but I really do consider losing Aggie an upgrade. They were like that kid in your neighborhood who always talked trash that you had to punch. He'd go cry to his mom, she would yell at you and not listen to your side and the entire scene would repeat the next week. I am ECSTATIC not gave that kid in my neighborhood anymore. Now he is the SEC's problem. I do understand your point though.
Too soon, too small of a data set. Sure aggy has done better than most projected (with Manziel getting deserved national attention), and TCU and WVU have done worse (WVU was in the discussion early as a BCS title game team and their QB was odds-on favorite to win the Heisman; TCU lost their starting QB due to his personal failings) than thought. If, after 2-3 years, aggy is still going 8-2 at this point of the season, their QB is a Heisman mention, and TCU and WVU are middle-to-bottom dwellers of the Big XII, then the criticism will be more valid. Not yet, IMHO. Just a few weeks ago Texas was face-raped by OU, the sky was falling, and now we're 8-2 with an outside shot of a BCS bowl and top-10 finish. The season is far from over. Not that TCU and WVU can recover much, granted. But aggy can still do what aggy does.
Don't forget Nebraska, they're looking at winning the Big 10........................... if they can only get a couple other schools on probation.
NRHorn -- I see your point, though I don't personally share that opinion. I think we tend to view aTm by their idiot fans on the internet -- yes, they have more than their fair share, but everyone has them. I am good friends with several Aggies (both students and players, inlcuding some that played in the NFL), and they are all very cool, so I have a different impression than most on that front. Their fans aside, what must be admitted about aTm is this: it is a first-tier public university, a fellow AAU member, it sells out a large stadium and has a passionate following, it is relatively high profile, it has a large following in arguably the biggest college football state in the country (Cali and NY have more people, but they are pro states more than college), and it was a 100+ year rival. So, not only is losing aTm a downgrade on the merits, but you also lose a big game that a lot of people circled on the calendar and generated a lot of buzz beforehand (TCU simply won't). At the founding of the Big 12, Nebraska was arguably the most high-prfile program in the country. Certainly in the Top 5, and Top 10 all time. No impartial college football fan or historian would put TCU or WVU in the same zip code with Nebraska. Nebraska has also sold out a massive stadium for about 40 years in a row. TCU gets maybe one sellout every decade. So, there is simply no way that losing Nebraksa and aTm for TCU and WVU is a even trade. They are midmajors, and deservedly so. Losing CU and Missou on top of that just makes it worse. Yes, CU sucks right now, but they won several conference championships (I doubt TCU or WVU will ever win one -- see their 3-4 and 2-4 records despite the fact that both started the season ranked). They also won a MNC. On top of that, they are the flagship program in a big state, and are an AAU member. They are down now, but the the fundamentals are there for a good program. Same with Missou. They are also an AAU member and a flagship school in a populous state. Meanwhile, WVU is featured in the openeing credits of the Beverly Hillbillies for a reason, and will never get within 500 miles of the AAU. They have had a nice program in an inferior conference, but I suspect a decade hence you will see them go about 4-5 most years in conference, and compete for middling bowls. TCU will be in the same boat. They won't get to pad thier schedules with 8-10 automatic wins every year, and will float back down to their normal place -- which will be between 5th and 8th most years. Moroever, neiither has much to offer outside of football. WVU has awful academics, mediocre national exposure as a university, and comes from a state that is about 47th in everything from GDP to education. TCU is known mostly for having exorbidant tuition and attractive coeds (kudos on that). There is a reason, however, that it and SMU got left behind when the Big 8 came calling -- small private schools don't have much to offer when it comes to TV revenue or national prominence, especially when they are also not Top 25 in the USNWR (like, say, Stanford). So I get that a lot of people don't like Aggies and are glad to be rid of them. That makes some sense on a gut/visceral level, at least for UT fans (the other schools don't share that level of antipathy). It doesn't make any sense on paper, however, or in the wallet.
Something tells me that if a&m was still in the conference, they would manage to be 6-4 or worse. - Mike
I thought aggie had a shot at beating Bama, and I'm glad they did, but back away from the maroon kool aide. They are a fractured wrist or broken collar bone away from being very medicore. Without Manziel, they would be far less dynamic on offense. Meanwhle, they become a more attractive to recruits with every ESPN slobberjob.
wow, aggy is having 1 good season (after they sucked spectacularly for 15 years) and this is where you go? they're good because they left. the sec is not set up to play teams like them (many of us predicted they would have better success in the SEC than they ever did in the Big 12). If we stay pat or add more ****** teams I'm with you but if we haul Florida State and Clemson i'd say we did just fine. Regardless of aggy and their 90,000 sellouts, they're the most annoying fans on earth and it's liberating to not have them blaming all of their and the world's problems on Texas.
...and, this is the beginning of the end of SEC SEC SEC dominance. By beating Bama, aggie has pointed out that the emperor is naked. Bama is beatable; Saban is human (sort of); conferences that play offense will win the MNC for a change. It is possible that conference will be the B12. I would say the odds of the B12 winning the MNC are far better than the SEC winning it, at this point.
Just to be clear, my point is not that trading Nebraska and aTm for TCU and WVU is a downgrade because aTm is having a good season. That is a short-term view, and I am making a long-term argument. And I agree that a silver lining to that is that aTm has punctured the myth that the SEC is high-and-mighty -- indeed, Aggie should haver beat Florida and LSU, whipped Bama on it's home field, and did so with a roster that finished 6-6 in the Big 12 last year and has been mostly middle of the pack for most of the Big 12's existance. (Of course, ESPN and the voters have still not gotten the memo. Espn waited 5 seconds before pimping Bama to the MNC as the best 1-loss team, and the voters still have 5 SEC teams in the Top 10 despite a mediocre record in the OOC, including several losses and near-losses to midmajors La Tech, ULaLa, ULa-Mo, Troy, etc.). My point is that not only do WVU and TCU not have much to offer off the field (aTm and Nebraska are both waaaay better than both in terms of historical prestige and success, fanbase and TV dollars, being flagship schools, academics, AAU status, etc). It is that, now that they don't get to pad their won/loss records with 8-11 patsies every year), WVU and TCU are likely to CEASE being 11-1 tems on the verge of BCS invites and will instead be 7-5 mid-level schools that go to mediocre bowls, get zero national attention, and have limited followings outside of their own campuses (and based on the acres of empty seats in Ft. Worth, not even that in TCU's case). Take away their recent football success (in small conferences), and TCU and WVU are midmajors in every sense of the word. And it is not an argument to ignore Nebraska's status as a Top 10 all time football program or aTm's overall credentials as a flagship school and instead focus on the recent plight of CU or Mizzou (Mizzou has actually been very good until this year, when their QB got hurt and they have lost a lot of close games). In any assessment of "is the conference better or worse" when you trade 4 for 2, you look at the two best (not worst) schools/programs you lost and compare them to the two you got. That is how the country and media evaluates such things. Instead, CU and Missou -- both of which have had more successful programs than TCU and WVU for long stretches in the last 25 years, and played much better competition to boot -- would properly be compared to whoever our next two teams are. If it is Fla State and Clemson (unlikely according to most), then the "upgrade" argument looks a littel better, though any Big 12 commish worth his salt would still rather have the regional flagship combination of Neb/aTm/CU/Miz than the disparate widows and orphans combination of TCU/WVU/Clem/FSU. But it looks a lot more likely that we add teams like Louisville at this point, or maybe just stand pat. No school from the stable, prosperous and prestigious blue-chip conferences (SEC, Pac 12, B1G) would even consider bolting their hallowed homes for the Big 12 (and 4 of our 7 best schools/programs historically have already left for those places). The ACC is closer, but it still is probably more attachtive to FSU and Clemson than the Big 12. Thus, if the Big 12 is going to grow, it is likely to be more midmajors looking to move up from a small pond to a medium pond, For my part, I wish will still had the relatively big pond we had a few years ago, or at least had jumped to one of the other big ponds that we could have gone to. Now that aTm is doing well and most of our road schedule will be played in small stadiums with little hype or national exposure (has a Big 12 school hosted Gameday even once this year?), I suspect we will start losing a lot more of our recruiting battles to not only the Aggies, but other prominent programs from across the country. No kid that wants to be on the biggest stage wants to play most of their games on regional cable or the LHN against the likes of ISU, TCU, KU, Baylor, etc etc. And, based on how quiet DKR has been this year, it sounds like the fans don't much like the current product either.
From a fan base and tradition, sorry TCU and WVU aren't that great. TCU had a great run in a Mid Major, but will likely fall again. They don't have the facilities and fan base long term I would love Texas to join PAC or SEC. Around the country year after year the only game that gets a national following is going to be OU. These are all puke games Kansas Iowa State BU (pre and post RG3) Moderately interesting KSU (will go back to dust after Bill Snider) TCU OSU Tech Would love to see this on TU schedule LSU Alabama Florida OU A&M Etc Would be much more exiting week in and week out or even OU Oregon USC UCLA etc The Big 12 needs to add real teams (e.g. FSU) or Texas needs to schedule them in OOC
Don't think that the Big 12 will win it this year. Once we beat K-State, they won't even be playing for it.
Aggy has been a 'middle of the road' team since the B12 started and the fact that they beat Bama does not automatically elevate them to top tier. We are having just a sorta/kinda good year and have one common opponent with aggy. Ole Miss. We beat them by 30 and aggy beat them by three, both games away. The point is that aggy had a great game against an apparently overrated Bama team, living off last year's rep, but there is obviously not a lot of difference between Bama and Ole Miss.
Per an essay-point I wrote in another thread.... I saw A&M as hopelessly dysfunctional with resentment toward UT in particular, and part of the rest of the Big 12, and hopelessly in love with the SEC and whatever would make them feel good about just being alive as an institution. It worked. They now seem over their resentment they've been living with for much of a century. So it's an upgrade to be divorced from a hopelessly dysfunctional fan base and program. Just the way it goes sometimes. If A&M could have lived with themselves here and become positive as they are now, fine. It would have been great. What we did not need was a psychologically broken situation. Who knows but that they will restort back to that, or some other obsession while in the SEC, but for now it's better they go elsewhere regardless of how good their football program is. They were just damaged goods faced with The University of Texas in their midst. It's going to take five or more years to see how this works out overall. A&M may be having their best year THIS year, and things may be different next year. I'm willing to bet that any teams playing them this year... next time they play, they are going to give A&M an A-game, and then some. Then we'll see how things start shaping up in the psychological warfare department. Also, wait until basketball comes around and we have WVU and TCU here for games... and Kansas on a regular basis.
What is apparent is that the sec is not as dominant as once thought, there are 2 really good teams and 2 good teams, the rest are mediocre at best. The big 12 has 1 really good team, 2 good teams and a lot of mediocre teams. There is only 1 doormat in the big 12 while the sec has 3. As long as the big 12 has stability then it will become a great conference again shortly. You still have to play the games and win them no matter where you are. I see UT, ou, OSU, Tech, WV, TCU, Iowa St. getting better next year. KSU will still be good but not like this year, Baylor and KU may improve a little.
Let's see...... Vandy, Tenn, Mizzou, kentucky, mississippi, arky, & auburn. That's at least 7 bad teams right there just off the top of my head. HOOK 'EM, Texdoc
Our daughter went to TCU, and has season tickets there. If I'm not mistaken, they've had a couple of sell-outs, including the KSU game. If you want to see and talk about a school not filling a small stadium, check out SMU.
I'm not remotely unhappy that agricultural is in the SEC, and that they're off of our schedule for the foreseeable future. Reference the whining about the conference UT is in...I can't name one other conference that would be preferable. The PAC? Yeah, a couple of years ago I was all for UT going west, but excepting Oregon and Stanford, the PAC is the B1G with a taste for guacamole. The SEC? I mean...really??? Why would I remotely want UT back in a conference with mizzou and agricultural? They fit...we'd be a square peg in a round hole. The B1G? Uh Uh...the nearest rival would be at least a thousand miles away, and while it might be nice playing t-OSU and Michigan regularly, we'd have to start playing whiny Herbie again...no thanks! The ACC? I'm not that crazy about hoops. I can see the Big XII ultimately going to twelve, and if the right two schools are brought in, this conference is just fine. I think the conference will surprise and get it right when it expands. You don't like UT playing Kansas, Baylor, TCU, WVU, etc...I'm sure there's plenty of other things to do on fall weekends.
since when does aggy sell out their stadium? it may be a new thing with the newness of being in a new conference but, uh, no they don't normally. So stop that right now. Their stadium is bigger than TCU for sure but TCU is also good in sports aggy is not. WVU for sure is. It's a fluke when aggy makes the hoops tournament but expected for WVU who has had some good runs. Academics, aggy wins no contest v. WVU. But in sports that matter I will take TCU and WVU over Colorado, Mizzou or aggy. Huskers I dunno.
