The First 100 days

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by theiioftx, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    No, no...they are really concerned about the country.
     
  2. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    My cousin shared this on Facebook.

    FB_IMG_1516695574935.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 6
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Frankly, it was a stupid move. Government shutdowns instigated in order to force an unrelated issue rarely ends well. The Obamacare shutdown was dumb too, but that at least had major budget implications. (I actually theorize that Obama and the Dems would have been better off if they had worked out a delay of Obamacare because they could have avoided the rollout problems, but that's beside the point.)

    This shutdown was intended to virtue signal to a very narrow constituency that's already strongly in the Democratic column. If the GOP had really dug in against the Dreamers, it would have made more sense (though still wouldn't have been worth it), but they hadn't. They simply wanted any DACA legislation to be part of a broader immigration bill rather than something tacked onto a budget bill.

    The fact that Luis Gutierrez publicly said he'd support the wall to protect DACA in the budget says a lot. That would have been total capitulation and an embarrassment if you're a Democrat. (Frankly, the GOP may been smart to jump on that.) The Dems knew that this shutdown wasn't working for them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    I am completely astounded by the CNN clips where two reporters jumped in to challenge and correct the democrats in the middle of their lying screeds. I cannot remember when that has ever happened to lying sack of **** democrat politicians before.

    I hope it is the start of a trend and not just an anomaly.
     
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  5. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    I think that's the key lesson to be learned for both parties. Don't muddy the budget discussion with unrelated issues. It never works out.
     
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  6. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    The Dems were sure the GOP would be blamed as they always are. Unfortunately for them, they have not yet realized that DT blew up that model.
     
  7. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

  8. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    Doubtful. It will take CNN years to win back credibility. I don't see them putting much more effort into it.
     
  9. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Well, the sticking point is, would he actually support funding? Or authorization? That's what Schumer and Graham tried to do last time around - authorization to build it and some spare change that won't be sufficient. Plus, as I recall, they basically decided to call the diversity visa lottery something else and carry it over.

    The big problem with negotiating with Dems in general, and Schumer/Durbin specifically, is that they're never actually going to actually give you something that will advance what you're trying to accomplish in terms of increased security or stricter immigration policy/enforcement.
     
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Well, you'd have to hold them to their promise - authorize it and fully fund it from the get-go.

    Overwhelming the white population of the country that tends to support Western ideals with a large foreign population that largely rejects Western ideals is probably the most important long term strategy for the Democratic Party. Privately they admit this. Obviously any effort to reverse or scale that back will be fought with everything they have. However, the GOP has the numbers and the leverage to hold their feet to the fire on immigration if they dig in when necessary.
     
  11. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    And they'd better keep it private, based on the Harvard study that was released this week:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/news/har...ll-voters-support-reducing-immigration-levels

    So despite Schumer's assertions, a full 65 percent of Americans apparently support the basic premise behind Trump's plan. And that 35 percent against it likely includes people who are even farther to the right who've said they don't want amnesty REGARDLESS.

    That was really encouraging to see, and may be bad news for the Dems, who looked like they had a hammer lock on the midterms. You may seem them run screaming from immigration in the coming months and go find another wedge issue to leverage going into November.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Nice perk
    What could have caused this?

    CNBC --

    Verizon says 150,000 employees will receive 50 shares of restricted stock, the price of which will be set on February 1
     
  13. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    They know this, but they also know the race and white guilt cards are major players in this issue. That's why they made such a big deal about the ******** and Haiti/Norway comments.
     
  14. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I"m very curious whether this is going to continue widening the gap between what the polls say and where the votes actually end up. Dems continue to demonize people who don't want the gates swung wide open, because it makes a great sound byte, they get almost no pushback, and a whole lot of pats on the back and virtue-signaling amens. The 65 percent or so of the population that's being called racist on a daily basis may not be frothing at the mouth, but I suspect they're getting a little tired of it. That may make the "stealth Trump" support even more prominent over time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    maybe not how you meant it but I would hope they finally do more than just 'dig in' and hold the line. I would hope they finally advance the cause and impose new stricter standards. For too long they have tried the hold your ground approach and the Dems have whittled away at immigration controls. The GOP finally needs to take up the fight and take back the ground they ceded under Reagan, Bush I, et al.

    Haven't been a big fan of Trump but if he manages to fully end chain migration and implement a merit based immigration policy I will be a fan.
     
  16. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  17. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Liberal heads exploding yet?



    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    A few things on this. First, the media and political culture strongly reinforce the Democrats' narrative on the issue. They enable open borders advocates to make the issue a racial one rather than one of assimilation or economics, and that's a very powerful diversion. Nobody wants to be called or viewed as a racist.

    Second, for years Democrats have been able to have their cake and eat it too. They've been able to demonize all forms of Western-oriented forms of nationalism (white nationalism, Christian nationalism, etc.) while exploiting and promoting other forms of nationalism (black nationalism, Latino nationalism, and now Islamic/Arabic nationalism). I think that inconsistency is becoming harder to maintain. You can't preach leftist identity politics without promoting white nationalism. That's why the Left's hatred of guys like Richard Spencer and the alt-Right is ironic. They enable and give undeserved credibility to those idiots every day.

    Third, the Right needs to learn not to fall into the Left's trap of letting the issue become one of ethnic nationalism and identity. For example, comments about preferring Norwegians over Haitians is damaging to the cause, as are proposed Muslim bans. That's why the Left tried to put so much emphasis on that junk. We should be be basing immigration decisions on individual merit, not ethnicity, religion, or national origin. If a Haitian believes in American ideals and isn't likely to be a burden on the taxpayer and a Norwegian believes in European socialism and is therefore likely to be a burden or promote others being a burden, then I'll take the Haitian and leave the Norwegian. The Right needs to become FAR more rhetorically disciplined on the issue.

    Finally, the Left will lose on this issue if the Right doesn't screw it up. The kick in the *** they took on the shutdown is indicative of how weak their position really is. And yes, their extremism on borders and rush to the race card is a reason why we ended up with Trump. People who aren't staunch ideological liberals are getting tired of their ******** and phony outrage.
     
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  19. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    That's Mickey Mouse money compared to the overall economic boom occurring.....

    :thumbup:
     
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  20. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I'm hoping that they learned a lesson in that they stood firm, let the Dems shut things down, and they weren't all chased out of town with pitchforks immediately thereafter. The world didn't end just because they grew spines. And that's even after a large portion of the MSM really worked to make this a Republican problem - or at least, to say "both sides need to work this out." When you have Wolf Blitzer of all people telling liberal guests that the Dems were actually at fault, you know the progressives are in serious trouble from a PR standpoint.

    Having said that, they HAVE to stop letting Graham be the point person on these so-called "bi-partisan deals." It doesn't count as bi-partisan just because you can find one republican who agrees with the other side and helps them write the bill they all wanted to write, anyway.
     
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  21. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I'm just going to set this right here.

    FB_IMG_1516778122603.jpg
     
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I think the issue is polarized to the point that it's going to be tough to reach a bipartisan deal without finding a Republican who basically agrees with Democrats on the issue or vice versa. Graham is basically an open borders guy, so of course he can work with Democrats on the issue.

    Maybe what we need is competing "bipartisan" bills. Perhaps Tom Cotton and Joe Donnelly or Joe Manchin can come up with an enforcement-oriented bill.
     
  23. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    What the f**k is wrong with that dude?
     
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Which dude?
     
  25. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    The one wearing Hillary spandex.
     
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Ok. I thought you meant Lindsey Graham.
     
  27. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    I have been assured by a highly-placed government official that those are just crumbs and it's really pathetic to boot.
     
  28. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Hell, him too.
     
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Graham is just a throwback to what used to be a mainstream GOP position, which was lax border enforcement coupled with the occasional amnesty. It pleased the US Chamber of Commerce and other business interests because it suppressed wages and diminished the leverage of unions.

    Consider this exchange between Ezra Klein (Vox) and Bernie Sanders. I'm no Bernie Sanders fan, but there's a significant amount of truth to what he's saying. He is basically echoing the reverse position of Graham's and what used to be very common among Democrats - before identity politics became the core of their long term political strategy.

    Bernie Sanders
    Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal.

    Ezra Klein
    Really?

    Bernie Sanders
    Of course. That's a right-wing proposal, which says essentially there is no United States. ...

    Ezra Klein
    But it would make ...

    Bernie Sanders
    Excuse me ...

    Ezra Klein
    It would make a lot of global poor richer, wouldn't it?

    Bernie Sanders
    It would make everybody in America poorer —you're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world that believes in that. If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people. What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country, I think we have to do everything we can to create millions of jobs.

    You know what youth unemployment is in the United States of America today? If you're a white high school graduate, it's 33 percent, Hispanic 36 percent, African American 51 percent. You think we should open the borders and bring in a lot of low-wage workers, or do you think maybe we should try to get jobs for those kids?

    I think from a moral responsibility we've got to work with the rest of the industrialized world to address the problems of international poverty, but you don't do that by making people in this country even poorer.
     
  30. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Open borders is hardly a right-wing position. It may be a big business position, but big business is not solidly right-wing anymore.
     
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