The First 100 days

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by theiioftx, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    What he calls himself. We throw labels around like "democratic socialism," and we pretend that it's more moderate than totalitarian socialism. It isn't. They both advocate the public ownership of the means of production and view capitalism as something to be eliminated. What most ignorant people call "democratic socialism" is actually social democracy, which is still basically capitalistic but with regulations and a generous social welfare system.

    The difference is much more visible here where people aren't locked into a two-party system. For example, in Germany, the SPD (Social Democratic Party) is, as the name suggests, as social democratic party. It's a center-left party that basically supports free enterprise with a lot of welfare and labor protections - much like the Nordic model. Die Linke (The Left) calls itself democratic socialist, and they're the successor party to the Socialist Unity Party that governed East Germany. They're pretty much of a bunch of capitalist-hating crazy people who claim to support free elections (since overt totalitarian communism is somewhat politically taboo here).

    Bernie Sanders isn't an idiot spouting his mouth off. He knows the difference and the nuances, and he chooses to call himself a democratic socialist.
     
  2. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    JF
    Thanks I am sure to Obama.:lmao:
     
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  4. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Have to admit Barr is looking good so far

    He brought Rosenstein to heal, seems to have chased Weissmann out of the DOJ (something that was a decade or more overdue) and now he has spoken out on the border emergency.

     
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  5. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    Beats the hell out of Jeff Sessions. Of course that's a low Barr to clear.
     
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  6. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts


    To be clear, I'm not a Sanders supporter as he's too far left for me. This attempt to paint him as a Hugo Chavez wannabe needs more analysis though. Can you show me where he has plans "to eliminate capitalism"?

    To me, he's definately more in the social democrat spectrum than full on socialism. That doesn't mean 1 couldn't lead to the other though just as our current capitalist loving POTUS has autocratic tendencies.
     
  7. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    :lmao:
     
  8. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    He's not dumb enough to say he's going to "eliminate capitalism," and I don't think he could do so if he won. At this point in his career, he's pragmatic enough to know better. However, I do think that's where his principles are and what he would do if he could for a few reasons. First, like I said previously, he calls himself a "democratic socialist." Even if most Americans don't know what that means, he does. He's no genius, but he does know the nuances of socialism, so I take him at his word. He knows that the Nordic countries aren't democratic socialist states, and he knows that democratic socialism means the elimination of capitalism.

    Second, he has praised the actions of Marxist-Leninist states such as Venezuela under Chavez, Nicaragua under Ortega, and of course, the Soviet Union. He usually blunts that praise by admitting their "non-perfection," which is to be expected from a democratic socialist, but he's basically favorable to them from a policy standpoint. He thinks they ran things well and took good care of their people. Well, those are nations that clearly didn't fall into the social democracy category and not just because they were totalitarian. Their economies were structured entirely differently.

    Third, some of the candidates he endorses are openly hostile to capitalism, and he's obviously OK with that and has endorsed some pretty radical policies that go beyond the Nordic model. See AOC, who says that capitalism is "irredeemable." See the Green New Deal, which Sanders has endorsed. Obviously, the proposal is short on specifics ( since nobody's asking for them), but it's pretty hard to do what's in it without some pretty substantial "capitalism destruction."

    Full disclosure - if he was a social democrat, I would not be any more supportive of him. Social democracy is still bad policy. We've tried facets of it, and we're terrible at it. We have trillions in unfunded liabilities because of it - financially the biggest mistake we've made in 240 years. Furthermore, I don't want the tax burden. I know we only hear about the super rich getting hit with new taxes to finance social democratic programs, but I know better, because I live in a semi-social democracy (actually a relatively moderate and right-leaning social democracy) and know that everybody ultimately pays. I don't want my payroll taxes doubled, my incomes taxes hiked, a $3 per gallon gasoline tax, 30 cent per kw/h electricity, and a 19 percent VAT. That's just not a good system to emulate if you want a free economy and respect economic liberty.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  9. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Trump donates paycheck to Department of Homeland Security, tweets photo

    Trump donated this portion of his POTUS paycheck to the DHS.
    For a man who is not keeping any of his POTUS pay simply because he loves his country, the left sure hates him for it!


    NOTE to all the ultra rich who have sanctimoniously proclaimed they thought they should pay more in taxes. If you mean it Trump shows you how to do it.
     
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  10. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I didn't know much about the Democratic Socialists so I read their platform. It explicitly cites elements of the Scandinavian countries and differentiates itself from the totalitarian regimes like Cuba and the former USSR.

    Bernie has cited elements of those countries he's supported in the past, typically centered against the US intervening in their affairs. The again, he's also an isolationist.

    Like you, I vehemently think Democratic Socialism is bad policy and much too expensive.

    The proposition that Sanders supports a Venezuelan or Cuban style government is a leap, IMHO, not supported by the public information I've read.

    We do need something to counter the accelerating income gap disparity.
     
  11. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    "The Supreme Court on Tuesday endorsed the U.S. government's authority to detain immigrants awaiting deportation anytime - potentially even years - after they have completed prison terms for criminal convictions, handing President Donald Trump a victory as he pursues hardline immigration policies.
    * * *
    The law at issue states that the government can detain convicted immigrants "when the alien is released" from criminal detention. Civil rights lawyers for two groups of plaintiffs argued that the language of the law shows that it applies only immediately after immigrants are released. The Trump administration said the government should have the power to detain such immigrants anytime.

    It is not the court's job, Alito wrote, to impose a time limit for when immigrants can be detained after serving a prison sentence. Alito noted that the court repeatedly has said in the past that "an official's crucial duties are better carried out late than never."

    Alito said the challengers' assertion that immigrants had to be detained within 24 hours of ending a prison sentence is "especially hard to swallow." ...."

    U.S. Supreme Court gives Trump victory on immigration detention
     
  12. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Good for him. Giving him credit for 2ys of salary donated, that's 6% of the cost of his weekend jaunts to Mar-a-Lago.
     
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  13. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    As opposed to 0.00% of the costs associated with ferrying Moochelle and the Obama brats all over the world, that were donated by president Hussein.
     
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  14. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    The Scandinavian countries are the closest thing they have, so yes, they will support facets of their agenda. However, you'll notice that they acknowledge that no one has instituted democratic socialism (including Scandinavia). You'll also notice that their critique is limited to the Eastern Bloc. They actually make no mention of Cuba. Furthermore, their criticism of the Eastern Bloc is rooted in their totalitarianism. They make no criticisms of their managed economies. That should tell you something.

    Here's a remarkably honest article from a DSA member and writer who was interviewed by Vox. It isn't about the Nordic Model. That is a transitional phase. It's about dumping the free market economy and capitalism.

    He has gone further than that. He has praised their healthcare and food systems as well. He has affirmatively praised them - not just opposed our involvement.

    Again, I'm not saying he'll adopt that kind of system in the US. He wouldn't try to create a unitary one-party state like this countries did. However, I do think he'd try to emulate their economic policies to the extent that he could.
     
  15. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Here's a solution if you feel like your income is too low; Go To Work!
     
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  16. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I didn't count the costs of Melania's typically separate travels to Mar-a-lago or the Trump children oversees jaunts. That trip to India to hawk condos by Don Jr. reportedly cost 7 figures in security.
     
  17. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Trump’s travel to Mar-a-Lago alone probably cost taxpayers more than $64 million

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I was being generous. Through FOIA requests we KNOW the trips cost at least $13M in additional Coast Guard costs alone. The rest are all estimates.

    Keep in mind, this is the crowd that 4yrs ago cared about any POTUS golf adventures. Now? Again...no mirrors.
     
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  19. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Keep in mind, 4 years ago, your crowd couldn't care less about presidential travel expenses. Now, you wet your pants over them. Hypocrite.
     
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  20. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I still only care about it in egregious situations. I just like to hold up the mirror to hypocritical behavior. Golfing...travel expenses...you name it.
     
  21. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    It’s only an abuse if the president uses the office to engage in activities that he himself would not do alone. Obviously this does not apply Trump. People knew his habits when he was elected.
     
  22. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    The other guy was a useless POS who accomplished little, so there is that part as well.
     
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  23. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Can't disagree with you on that point.
     
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  24. militaryhorn

    militaryhorn Prediction Contest Manager

    From reading a lot of your posts, I gather you do pretty good, as far as pay goes. With this assumption I would also assume that you supervise a few people at work.

    How about we start with you. Take the amount you make and divide it evenly for each employee under you and give them a raise. So, basically if five people are under you and you make $100,000 and they make $60,000, then you can give them a $6,500 raise and you all will be making around $67,000 a year.

    Oh, it doesn't matter if they earned it or not, just do it because it is fair.
     
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  25. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Kushner using WhatsApp to conduct government business, but we don't care because Hillary, right?
     
  26. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Was the misuse of classified information involved?
     
  27. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    I'm with you in criticizing trump for the frequent non-biz outings and specifically in using his club as a destination, but those numbers are incredibly inflated by the cherry picking media. Kind of like the numbers cited for sending troops to the border. These troops and assets are already active duty on-the-clock and the expense is already a sunk cost. They are just using them differently than they might have otherwise.
     
  28. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    that's a crap defense. I remember him specifically talking about Obama's excessive golfing and how he was going to be the work-all-day-everyday guy because he had so much vigor.
     
  29. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 2,500+ Posts

    What if it did?
     
  30. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    BOSD
    There is much to criticize about Trump's personality but his work ethic is not one of them.
     
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