The First 100 days

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by theiioftx, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    This is one of the parts of the tax proposal that stood out to me.
    Low tax states shouldn't have to subsidize tax-happy states.
    For example, if Californians want to pay a high state income tax to fund social programs, then that is their call.
    But do not come whining to the rest of us when we don't want to pay for it.


     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Making progress = name calling and NK continual missile launches?

    I think China is trying to calm both crazy leaders down. China may be the winner here.
     
  3. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Subsidizing? Nobody sends more money to the feds and gets back less than California. Last study I read showed they received $.077 for every $1 they send to Washington. If you want to look at "subsidies" look at smaller states like Alaska, Mississippi and their ilk. This isn't a left/right issue but rather states with the bigger economies subsidizing those with smaller economies. The deep Southern states (like Mississippi) lead the charge in sucking from the federal government tit.
     
  4. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    :facepalm:
     
  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Apparently, Trump and the Republican Leadership have released their tax plan, and honestly, I don't quite understand the political strategy here. If you read the specifics, it has major breaks for businesses and significant but relatively modest relief for upper income individuals, and those breaks are very objective and reasonably specific. (BTW, I'm a supply-sider and favor these breaks, especially on the corporate side.) Of course, the critics are slamming the proposal as very lopsided to the wealthy and provides little or nothing to anybody else - something Trump ran on NOT doing. In fact, Trump at times promised tax hikes on the highest earners.

    Anyway, what I don't understand is why the plan provides so little detail that could be used to argue against the "this only helps the rich" narrative. The plan eliminates the deductibility of state and local taxes, which means more people are going to take the standard deduction, which they almost double. It also increases the child tax credit, which is currently $1,000.00. It doesn't specify how much, but rumors suggest it'll be in the $500 range. So you lose the deduction for state and local taxes but get a bigger standard deduction and a bigger child credit. Sounds nice, but you also lose your personal exemptions, which are currently $4,050.00 per dependent.

    To put it into perspective (and this is admittedly very simplistic), under the current law, a family of 4 is going to get at least $12,000 (and some change) from either the standard or itemized deductions. In addition, that family is going to get $16,200.00 in personal exemptions for total deductions of $28,200.00. Under the proposal, that family is going to get a flat $24,000.00 in deductions, so $4,200 more of its income will be taxed. Is that nullified by the $1,000.00 in additional tax credits? That depends on what's done with the rates.

    The plan did release what the rates will be (sorta). It's going to go with 12, 25, and 35 percent brackets, while leaving an option for a fourth higher rate (not sure what the hell that means). However, it doesn't say what income thresholds trigger those rates or even give a general idea. That means that a middle class family could easily see very little relief, and it's not hard to come up with very plausible scenarios in which they'd see a tax hike. Again, it just depends on where the brackets are.

    My question is why leave this open for speculation? The upper bracket and especially the corporate side need tax relief and reform, but the way that's sold to the public is making sure they know that businesses and wealthy individuals aren't the only ones getting tax relief. With how this thing is getting sold, the wealthy are definitely meaningful relief, while the middle class may or may not get relief and may even get a tax hike. They should at least ensure with specificity that nobody's taxes are going up.
     
  8. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  9. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Upper middle class who normally itemize for local and state taxes appear to get screwed. Regarding loss of personal exemptions, I receive very little of the current $4000 tax credit for my 4 children (total). I read that these won't fade out as quickly in new plan. So $24k in extra taxable income can be counter balanced with $6000 (4*1500) in tax credits that normally are $1000 for me. Finally we don't know the bracket breakdown that might help those who lose the state and local tax exemption.
     
  10. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Yep, upper middle class appear to be the ones that will be the losers. They are lying when they claim wealthy don't get any advantage. Yes, I'm saying Gary Cohen and our POTUS are lying. You can't reduce the top tax rate and eliminate the AMT as well as other changes that only impact the wealthy and claim they aren't doing well with this plan. In fact, they appear to be making out like bandits when you throw in the lowering corporate tax rates which many wealthy leverage the S-Corp structure to protect their wealth.
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Yep. It's like we're talking in different languages. This is a good discussion of what's happening. Yes, it's by a liberal author and has a liberal slant, and one can argue against her interpretations, assumptions, and conclusions. However, she relies on objective facts. The plan definitely benefits corporations and upper income individuals and at least has the potential to hose middle and upper middle class families.

    And again, I'm a supply-sider. I think we need to cut corporate taxes. They're definitely too high, and I do believe that cutting them and the top rate will help the economy and create jobs. History overwhelmingly supports that, and it makes sense. When was the last time a poor guy offered you a job? It doesn't happen. Even the "small businesses" I worked for were owned by guys who lived in million dollar homes in West Austin. They were pretty well-off guys.

    However, who are we BSing when we claim this tax plan isn't good for the rich or that it's geared toward the middle class? It's just not true. It's geared toward the upper income individuals and businesses, and its impact on the middle and upper middle classes is ambiguous at best.
     
  12. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    So the governor of PR, mayor of neighboring town Guaynabo, and FEMA administrator say the San Juan mayor bashing DT is full of sh*t.

    Guaynabo’s Mayor Angel Perez said he has no idea what the hell Cruz is talking about since his city has been receiving aid. The reason why they are getting help is because Perez has kept on top of relief effortsby attending meetings with officials from FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) and other federal agencies.

    “I don’t know why she is saying that,” Perez told the Daily Caller. “She is not participating in any meetings. We had a couple already with the governors and with representation of FEMA and of HUD, these whole federal agencies that have given us help. We are receiving assistance from FEMA. I got people over here helping us with applications for the people that have damage in their houses.”

    Mayor Perez echoed the sentiments of Richard Rossello, the governor of Puerto Rico, who praised President Trump for his rapid response to Puerto Rico’s aid requests.

    There are thousands of containers packed with food, water and medical supplies sitting idly in San Juan Port because Puerto Rico does not have enough truck drivers to transport the goods across the island.

    FEMA administrator Brock Long told CNN it would be nice if Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz bothered to show up at FEMA offices and got clued in.

    “What we need is for the mayor to make her way to the joint field office and get plugged into what’s going on,” Long said.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I like all his picks except Don Willett. He's generally conservative, but he's a believer in the Lochner doctrine, which Robert Bork rightly called, "the symbol, indeed the quintessence, of judicial usurpation of power." If you buy into Lochner, you can't complain about judicial activism or call yourself a strict constructionist.
     
  16. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Based on his tweets, not hard to see Willet as an activist.
     
  17. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Then that's a great hit ratio. Justifying praise. Right?
     
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Of course, he would never call himself an activist. The reason I call him one is that Lochner relies on the same doctrine as Roe v. Wade - the idea that the due process clause of the 14th Amendment creates substantive rights that aren't written anywhere and are therefore based on the arbitrary whims and policy preferences of the judges deciding the case. They then use these made-up rights to strike down laws they don't like. It's the ultimate exercise of judicial tyranny and abuse.

    Most conservative legal scholars reject Lochner, but a vocal minority like it because it strikes down economic regulations (such as minimum wage laws and consumer protection laws). I understand that from a policy standpoint, but when it comes to being a judge, the ends don't justify the means. Your duty is to follow the law, even if the result doesn't fit your policy preferences.
     
  19. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It is a good hit ratio. Trump has done a good job picking judges, and I do give him credit for it.
     
  20. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    And even better if you remember what the alternative was
     
  21. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Points for the headline writer

     
  22. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

  23. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I clicked on the link, and it looks like the waiver has been granted.
     
  24. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    This is the general experience that I saw in Ike here in Houston area: new day = new bottleneck of sorts in the recovery effort. Lack of water one day, lack of fuel the next day. However, day by day these issues get resolved as they bubble up to the city and the disaster recovery teams. For PR, it was Jones act last week and food stamps this week. Trump is right - at some point the local people have to take the help to the last mile (last mile problem of supply chains). The big issue is power. If they had power, they would have AC, clean water, all businesses would be open, etc. I wonder how many generators have been shipped in. Probably a 1000. No quick fix for thousands of miles of downed power lines.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Good, I'm sure the media exposure had no effect.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    They may have had some slight "expediting impact" but largely their impact is negative. They get people expecting that all of these issues should have been worked out before and that a hurricane that wipes out your island is something we should have a "hurricane quick fix-it kit" already built for. The media generally runs with the assumption that the federal government should have a canned response plan for every contingency that could possibly unfold. That's simply infeasible. Even if it weren't a funding impossibility...it's like a battle plan...no plan survives first contact with the enemy. All of the variations of need can't be planned for, some of it is always going to be fly by the seat of your pants and its going to be slower and less effective than we would want. As far as I'm concerned, if we get it 80% right in these situations, we've done a good job. Just like every other city that finds itself routinely in harms way with the weather, Puerto Rico needs to get their own house in order and have better plans for themselves for the future.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    There isn't anything I disagree with in your post. For this instance one would have expected on the heals of Irma and Harvey the US Dept. of Ag would have been ready to expedite that exception. It got done so all is good. One can only imagine what the Puerto Rico citizens are enduring with power restored to only 15% of the country as of yesterday.
     
  29. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    It is sad to see and I know it is hard to be patient when you are the one in the grinder, but PR folks deserve a fair share of the blame for their own situation. You live on an island for goodness sakes. There are hurricanes in your neighborhood almost every year. Make some hurricane shelters. Have some supplies set aside. Build your National Guard element specifically to handle these situations.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Much of this applies to New Orleans as well WRT Katrina.
     

Share This Page