The Rise and Fall of Texas Football

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Billy Dale, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. FWHORN

    FWHORN 5,000+ Posts

    Hence my point that Herman had won enough games to keep his job for at least another year, he lost it for the off the field stuff mostly emanating from his atrocious handling of the Eyes Of Texas issue.
     
  2. Billy Dale

    Billy Dale The History of Longhorn Sports through 2014

    Herman did not have a Longhorn exclusive on losing to TCU, OU, and OSU. I learned long ago not to argue on the internet with people I don't know. That is a feudal exercise and creates unnecessary ill-will . That said, I am not a Herman hater, and I think he was caught in a Longhorn vortex anomaly that he did not create. opinion3.jpg
     
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  3. Billy Dale

    Billy Dale The History of Longhorn Sports through 2014

    Great college football comes from towns of under 500,000 . Look at the below listing for the 2021 top 25 teams the first week of December 2021. 21 of 25 are from towns of under 500,000. The numbers are the population.

    Clemson Clemonson S.c. 17671
    Ole Miss Oxford , Ms 29,000
    Michigan State East Lansing, Me. 49,000
    Oklahoma State Stillwater, Ok 50,000
    Iowa Iowa City, Iowa 75,000
    Arkansas Fayetteville , Ark. 90,000
    Notre Dame South Bend 102,000
    alabama Tuscaloosa, 103,000
    O.U. Norman, Ok 111,000
    ByU Prov , Utah 117,000
    Utah Provo,Utah 117,000
    Texas A & M College Station, Tx 122,000
    Baylor Waco , Tx 125,000
    University of Louisiana Lafayette Lafyette , La. 126,000
    UGA Athens Georgia 129,000
    Oregon Eugene , Oregon 177,000
    Wake Forest Winston-Salem North Carolina 251,000
    Kentucky Wildcats Lexington , Ky 295,803
    University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA. 303,000
    Michigan Ann Arbor 329,000
    North Carolina State Raleigh , N.C. 483579
     
  4. Billy Dale

    Billy Dale The History of Longhorn Sports through 2014

    Great comments on Longhorn Sports History and Stark. With your permission I would like to add your comments to the Longhorn Sports history website at Texas Legacy Support Network texas legacy support network (2).jpg
     
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  5. TaylorTRoom

    TaylorTRoom 1,000+ Posts

    Sure! (And feel free to clean up the grammar)
     
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  6. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Billy,
    As of 2021 there are only 38 cities in the USA which have more than 500,000 population.
    The 200 Largest Cities in the United States by Population 2021
    The limited number of large cities vs college towns naturally skews the data you are using to make your point.
     
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  7. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life 5,000+ Posts

    You are right he didn't create it. His problem was he jumped on top and made it a bigger vortex. And he was an immature know it all *******...double birdie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  8. Billy Dale

    Billy Dale The History of Longhorn Sports through 2014

    Well then try this, 16 of the 25 top teams are in towns of population from 17,000 to 177,000 population. Very few teams from big cities such as Miami, New York, San Fran, L.A., Dallas, Minneapolis, Austin, Seattle, and..... are top 25 teams now. While there are many reasons for this ,one is that parents and their sons and daughters like small college town teams that are community driven. In 2021 for whatever reason the Big City Universities did not deliver top 25 teams. I think Larry Carlson's article reflects some of the reasons why big city football is on the decline.
     
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  9. TaylorTRoom

    TaylorTRoom 1,000+ Posts

    Yeah, Tom Herman’s job was to coach the football team, not to fix the school song. He didn’t do well enough on the former to make us ignore the latter.
     
  10. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    I agree with the overarching point about smaller cities being more natural hotbeds for college football. Too many other things to do in the really big cities, plus a greater portion of the population in large cities will have minimal to no connection with the local school.
     
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  11. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    For me the breaking point was reached when I heard Herman had team members telling recruits that they might be better off looking elsewhere. When your own team isn't a net positive towards your recruiting efforts, it is time for some type of drastic change.
     
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  12. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Here's a list of top schools (in FBS) in the biggest cities that got the "best colleges for urban living" moniker (Rice was actually #1). I left out all of the FCS-and-lower distinctions and schools with no football:

    Arizona
    Cincinnati
    Georgia Tech
    Minnesota
    NC State
    Ohio State
    Pitt
    Rice
    SMU
    Texas
    TCU
    Tulane
    Tulsa
    UCLA
    USF
    USC
    Vanderbilt
    Washington

    Ohio State is really the only "sustained success" team on there since the CFP started. Washington and Cincy have at least made the playoff.

    I think something that a lot of these colleges have... be it a blessing for academia or a curse in terms of football success... is a growing student population that has really gotten to the creme-de-la-creme-de-la-creme of hypercompetitive, intelligent students who desire more "bang for the buck" on tuition/fees and couldn't care less about football success. Take out the super-expensive private schools on the list and you basically get a who's who of "colleges that seem like they should be good at football but just aren't for some reason." Sans tOSU, of course.
     
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  13. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Great post, Chin. Well done, sir...
    :hookem:
     
  14. Billy Dale

    Billy Dale The History of Longhorn Sports through 2014

    OK - Your historical comments have passed "Grammarly" and have been placed in the Stark Center section as a "Reflection Point" of Lutcher Stark. Thanks for sharing . Do you want your comments anonymous or credited. Billy Dale
    The History of Longhorn Sports
     
  15. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    I really appreciate and like this^^^^perspective, 11.
    It is one I think about alot and have tried to explain to others but with limited success.
    I believe it to be generally true in the pros, also. Most of my thoughts revolve around thoughts about football in its simplest form being blue collar and some environments being more conducive than others to the required mentality.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  16. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    I have thought for some time now we had many recruits coming for the wrong reasons and attracting the wrong type guys ...and some but not all of that are related to things you are hitting on.
    I do believe strong leadership...and the right kind...can overcome a good deal of it if administered properly...in spite of some things that can't be changed.
     
  17. TaylorTRoom

    TaylorTRoom 1,000+ Posts

    It’s fine to credit them. Most of the info comes from a December 1941 Life magazine article and a 1938 Saturday Evening Post article. Do you need me to PM you my real name?
     
  18. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    The following historically powerful teams reside in cities of more than 177K: Texas, USC, Miami, UCLA, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Ohio State.

    Florida State, LSU, and Ohio State have won National Championships in the last 10 years. In the last 20 years, Florida State, LSU, Ohio State, USC, Texas and Florida have won National Championships

    Alabama's incredible twelve-year run skews the data heavily towards small cities. As does the number of power programs located in small cities. Having said that, it's an interesting premise worth observing, IMO.
     
  19. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    I have noticed that teams with bigger and faster players tend to win more (see Bama vs Georgia).
     
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  20. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    I guess the fact that we are in a wad about our record against the "Big 3", and two of them are OSU and TCU are what has me more concerned.

    I mean, I'm glad about where those two programs have risen to, and I have familial ties to Stillwater. But we are headed to a league, where at the moment, we are competitive on paper with Vandy, Mizzou, Carolina, and depending on the weekend, Hail State, Auburn and the Alligators. And we are two recruiting classes away from being competitive in the Big 12. Golly. Big 3. F'ning Beat Oklahoma and you can cure a lot of your problems with alums, recruits, media/public perception et. al.

    Oh, and as for Tom Osborne hanging on too long at Nebraska and needing to be run off, he won 3 National titles in his last 4 seasons and save for an Orange Bowl officiating robbery (aka Bowden's 1st title) and "Roll Left", he was likely looking at a Five-Peat.

    :cowrose:
     
  21. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    I was underwhelmed by this piece. Was hoping for a more definitive take on WHY the Longhorns have struggled. Instead it was just a rehash of the usual suspects:

    Texas is soft. Maybe. But if so, why is Texas soft? Can't be fancy lockers. UGA has fancy lockers as does Bama, Clemson, etc.

    Texas doesn't develop players well. Maybe. What's the evidence? Dearth of 1st round picks? That could be evidence of poor development or maybe the players have been overrated and actually reached their ceilings at UT.

    Bad coaches. Maybe. However, all of the coaches were hot commodities when hired. Doubt they were all fool's gold.

    In the end, it was basically just a walk down memory lane.
     
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  22. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Have to disagree. Ours was almost entirely interference from educrats wanting to play general manager without a clue what they were doing.

    In the case of A&M, y'all have done a great job of keeping you educrats in check, but not so much the boosters - see also Bum Bright.
     
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  23. Giovanni Jones

    Giovanni Jones 2,500+ Posts

    And I would have liked to have seen some practical suggestions for addressing these issues.
     
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  24. Giovanni Jones

    Giovanni Jones 2,500+ Posts

    and just my dos pesos, Austin hasn't really been a "charming college town" since the early to mid 1970s (at the latest). It was well on the way to metrofication* by the time I was there in the early 1980s.


    *a word I just made up, meaning urban/suburban sprawl with all the attendant traffic and quality of life issues
     
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  25. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 500+ Posts

    It was well over 500,000 when I joined in '98. Didn't seem to hurt Mack's glory days.
     
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  26. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Yeah, when I lived in Austin as a 7th grader in '75-'76 our favorite family swimming hole was Bull Creek park. When I came back for college in 1981 it was off limits to any swimmers.
     
  27. Giovanni Jones

    Giovanni Jones 2,500+ Posts

    True. But I rather doubt that whether Austin is a "charming college town" or "Little Houston in the Hill Country" is a major factor affecting UT football.
     
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  28. Gladius&Pilum

    Gladius&Pilum 100+ Posts

    Yeah, Austin hasn't been "Austin" since the first big wave of transplants arrived in 1983ish (of which I'm a member).

    Despite people claiming Bryan/CStat is ********, the city where a University is located is way down the list in terms of recruiting importance.
     
  29. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    While I agree, my thought has aways been that's because a multitude of players/recruits had no money to take a girl on a date or go to the local hotspots. I can see a great opportunity for that to change with NIL $$ for all. More money available, more desire for places to party.

    The days of Earl arriving with a couple of pairs of jeans, a few t-shirts, boots & tennis shoes are likely gone forever. On the bright side, Bosworth wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of driving that damn Corvette around Norman while his Jag convertible was parked in the garage with the keys in Barry's desk drawer.
     
  30. Bayerithe

    Bayerithe 1,000+ Posts

    We had leaders with a mean streak in the 2000s. Everyone remembers Vince in 2005, but we had some beasts with some attitude in the trenches. Guys like Kasey Studdard are what we are missing.
     
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