The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Anything is possible. But think about it. Donbas voted in favor of being annexed into Russia. Putin said no. He doesn't want to be in charge of Donbas where there is more Russian support. If he crosses the Dnieper, Western more Polish Ukraine will go completely bonkers and war will be on.

    All Putin wants is a geographical buffer and the missile launchers to moved back a bit. He has the first thing. The second thing is what the talks are about.
     
  2. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    A British plane carrying weapons to The Ukraine had to fly around German air space…

    US Senator Tom Cotton criticized Germany over this and other German reluctance to do anything that might piss Russia off.
     
  3. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Those Germans sure are a soft and pacifist people. Always so reluctant to go to war…. So flaky, lazy, easy-going, cavalier, and imprecise. A nation full of chefs and art majors, and no engineers. They also suck at soccer.

    :rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1:
     
  4. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Us and the UK are now clearly postured as NATO’s hawks while France and Germany are NATO’s doves. Of course, neither us nor UK need Russia’s gas or oil…

    Blinken and Sergei Lavrov’s meeting today may have commenced a slight thaw. Sergei said Russia would give the allies more time. No major breakthroughs, but a pace or two back from the edge of the cliff. We’ll see if this lasts.

    My take—Blinken is coming across as a competent diplomat. Joe needs to let Blinken do the public talking on everything about the Ukraine crisis—and Joe should not do another press conference where he characterizes a Russian invasion as inevitable or a “minor incursion” as ok. Many commentators are rightfully characterizing Joe’s comments as giving Russia a “green light” to invade Ukraine. Blinken, and even Jen Piss-Saki, were having to scramble to clean that up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
  5. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Antony Blinken is a competent guy. Sometimes he has to push bad policy, but he knows what he's doing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Yeah, Blinken seems like a pretty decent diplomat in this conflict thus far. Watch out though, Putin > Kissinger. I have confidence in our military’s skills which are noticeably better than the Russians. I can’t say that about our State Dept. Blinken seems to have his stuff together, but all-in-all I think Putin may find ways to run circles around the allies. The sooner he retires the better. Maybe that’s what he’s really after—a milder weather villa on the Black Sea…. :smokin:

    So much of all this seems to be driven by the pride and arrogance of the Russians. They’re ashamed that they’ve been downgraded from one of the world’s two superpowers to a regional bully—with less land.
     
  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I'm not sure that Putin is necessarily a better diplomat. He's just more committed to his cause and willing to do more than the West is, and everybody knows it. Putin is willing to use force to get his way. We aren't willing to use force to stop him from getting his way, and Putin knows that. Therefore, Putin wins.

    It's the Munich Summit repeating itself. Dumbasses driven by hindsight ridicule Neville Chamberlain for it all the time, but we follow his example pretty routinely.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    The Germans and the French seem content to be Russia’s b!tches.
     
  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Well, they like Russian oil, and if Putin invades Ukraine it doesn't hurt them. There just isn't any upside for taking a strong stance and a lot of potential downside to it.
     
  10. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Antony Blinken - Wikipedia gives a good career description.

    If you like what you saw from Bush and Obama. If you advocated the wars in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. If you believe that American Exceptionalism justifies imperialistic policy, than Blinken is your man.

    Is Blinken competent? Very much so in terms of effectively pushing an agenda. This is a man with zero military experience. He is an intelligent Jewish American with a prestigious law degree and has made millions via investments in the military-industrial complex. If you liked Cheney, Nuland, and Obama and what they did (Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria) you should get behind Blinken because he's in the same mold.
     
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  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Damn Jews are at it again, right? Lol.
     
  12. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    I'm not saying there is a "Jewish conspiracy." As far as I know, neither Obama, Clinton, Cheney, nor Nuland are Jews. But you have to admit, a proportionately high percentage of Jews hold influential positions within both government and finance. Whether that's because of genetics (high IQ), environment, or something else I have no idea. But to pretend that isn't the case is like saying blacks don't really make up a high percentage of professional basketball players.

    And Wikipedia pointed out the fact that Blinken is Jewish. I didn't know that.
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  13. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    A Kriegsmarine’s top admiral, Schonbach, praised Putin and said Putin deserves some respect and that Crimea shall not go back to The Ukraine. And now he’s lost his job over it—he resigned under pressure.
     
    • poop poop x 1
  14. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Catholic-American Joe Biden sure has a lot on his plate with all this Ukraine stuff. I wonder how Presbyterian-American Donald Trump would handle this situation? Probably similar to how Irish-American Ronald Reagan would have handled it. But Biden may continue trying to work international alliances like WASP-Methodist-American George HW Bush would have done.

    :rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1:
     
  15. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Chop
    H W was Episcopalian. Don't blame us Methodists :smh:
    But otherwise your point is well taken
     
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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  16. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    I suppose if the Wiki article on Blinken had said he was a Baptist instead of a Jew, and I stated that in my post, then there would be no feedback from you folks. But since the article said he is Jewish and I quoted that, then you are insinuating it was anti-Semitic to post that. Do you see how you have been brainwashed?
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  17. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Culturally Jews tend to value high achievement and excellence. Accordingly, there is probably a disproportionate number of Jews in law, finance, business, medicine, playing the violin, and just about everything that requires brains and discipline. The foreign policy and diplomatic class probably fits into the same category. Are there some dumb, crack-addicted homeless Jews or Jews who steal hubcaps out there? I'm sure there are, but I suspect that class is disproportionately small.

    Do I think they have a unique interest in foreign policy? They might, but I can hardly blame them. They saw 6 million of their parents and grandparents gassed or shot to death for no reason other than their and ethic background and religious beliefs, and the foreign policy establishments around the world largely didn't give a ****. I'd be uniquely interested in foreign policy too.

    I don't think you're antisemitic. I suspect that antisemites on both the Right and Left likely agree with you on a lot of foreign policy issues, but that doesn't make you antisemitic. I don't believe in the "a bad guy agrees with you on X, therefore you're a bad guy" fallacy. I'm sure David Duke agrees with me on affirmative action. That doesn't mean I'm a white supremacist, and the tendency of antisemites to agree with you on this doesn't make you an antisemite.

    Having said that, in light of their agreement, I do think it's kinda amusing that the one guy who's ethnic and religious background you thought was worth mentioning just happened to be Jewish.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The various headlines don’t point toward any easing of tensions. In fact, just the opposite. I agree with what I believe Monahans indicated in that Russia doesn’t want more Ukrainian territory. An invasion would require occupation and dealing with insurgencies. Annexation would mean taking on an economically broken state which Russia cannot afford.

    The possibility that Russia will launch missile and/or air attacks to destroy the military infrastructure of Ukraine seems likely and wouldn’t even require troops crossing the border if successful. If this occurs, the deduction is that Poland, Estonia, or maybe Romania is next. The US and NATO would either have to come to the table and retreat or escalate. Maybe there are other scenarios less scary, but if Russia is serious about NATO removing its imprint, this may be where it is going. God forbid either side resorts to nukes.
     
  20. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    I didn't take it as being anything bad about noting Blinkin was Jewish by heritage, it was just another part of describing him.

    Besides, for the Jews at the top levels of the Democrat party, being Jewish is almost entirely a heritage thing, instead of a religion, for their true religion is being a leftist. Being Jewish is like being Irish or Italian or going to a certain school, or being in a certain fraternity.

    Hard to know what the Russians are planning on doing. I don't think they will do anything overt against a actual NATO member - that would be a bridge too far. They had their chance to do something about the former Warsaw pact countries joining NATO in the 90's, did nothing, and it's water under the dam now, as Bob Stoops would say. And those countries, including the Baltics, don't have the same place in Russia's mind as Ukraine does.

    It's entirely possible that German and France, who are meeting with Russia without the USA, as no one respects Biden or gives two shits what he thinks, simply decide the best course of action for their countries is to give Russia what they want on Ukraine, and let it fall under Russia's orbit, or at least a Finland-zation aspect.

    You would think a full on invasion would be a huge amount of work, to both win militarily, then run that country and keep it under control, even after putting a puppet in place. But Russia did that in Hungary and Czechsolviska, so they have the collective experience, though at a much smaller scale.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  21. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Sounds like Vindman and his ilk are back in business and have what Trump wouldn’t cooperate on, a new war. But he was really just concerned about the “phone call”.
     
  22. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    Gotta say, I don't really follow what Depend's handlers are doing on the Ukraine issue. Depends himself has ruled out direct military force (guess you have to be thankful for small things, like us not getting into a land war with Russia!).

    The neo-cons, Like Bill Kristol, David Frum, and the always terrible David French, all of whom never saw a war they didn't love as long and neither they nor their kids had to fight in it, have this ridiculous beat off fantasy of arming insurgents to fight against the Russians from bases in Romania and Hungary, which has about zero chance of actually happening. Europe won't even stop buying Russian oil and gas in the event of a Russian invasion. Germany isn't freezing the dark of winter for anyone.

    So the US is left in the silly position of threatening unilateral sanctions against the Russians, while the rest of NATO keeps sending them money in return for light and heat - something their voters care fare more about than Ukraine.

    Maybe Slow Joe can threaten the Russians with what he uses to get ice cream in the White House:

    "OK Putin, I'm warning you. You make more than a limited incursion into Ukraine, and I'll shits myself. I mean it - and I don't have my diaper on today. It'll stink and you won't like it"

    "Uhh, Mr. President, you're on a video call - I don't think Putin will be able to smell you".

    Hire a senile old man for President, and this is what you get.
     
  23. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I'm with you Duck.

    While I do understand why Ukraine is afraid of Russia and that Russia is concerned with NATO standing on their proverbial side walk, I don't completely understand why Russia and Ukraine aren't trying to work with each other on things. Ukraine needs oil and gas. Russia needs wheat. Neither of them wants another arming rolling through their streets. They both have a shared culture. Their current problems come from Bolsheviks murdering everybody. International communist revolution is not on the table. I wish both sides would realize this and reorient their thinking toward each other.
     
  24. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    Maybe Hunter Biden should negotiate a truce.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  25. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    What is Ukraine supposed to do to "work with" Russian's desire to conquer their nation? That wouldn't be a trade, that would be extortion.

    Russia doesn't have to worry about Ukrainian armies rolling through their streets.
     
  26. OUBubba

    OUBubba Reluctant and Bullied Sponsor

    Statalyzer pops in once a month to drop some reasoned commentary.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    The Russians seem to want a satellite state in Ukraine - one that toes their line, doesn't have offensive weapons that could be used against Russia, and doesn't participate in military drills with NATO. Similar to Finland during the cold war.

    Doesn't sound like any of those thing will happen on their own, so in come the Russians. Then what?

    It's not like the Euro's are going to lift a finger in response - German won't even stop buying Russian oil and gas. The USA hasn't won a war in 76, going on 77 years, so any threats from Slow Joe are as impotent as what's hanging in his diaper. Various USA only sanctions will not make an effect, and the US won't cut Russia off from international financial transactions, as the Euros won't stand for any interruptions in their energy supplies.

    Russia will ultimately do whatever they want to do in Ukraine, Europe will do nothing, and the US will look foolish for making a big deal of out it all, while accomplishing nothing.
     
  28. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    As expected. more mush from the wimp:



    Couse, with the Euros saying flat out NO!, to any interruptions in their energy supplies, what can Depends do against those Russian? As above, his usual threat, soiling his pants when he wants ice cream, won't work against Putin, as it's a video call, without smell-a-vision.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  29. Duck Dodgers

    Duck Dodgers 1,000+ Posts

    And American's traitorous General Milley, fresh off his Silver Medal win in the Afgan War, spouts nonsense about NATO.

    As if the Russians are going to get intimidated by a fat general who lost a war last summer.

     
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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  30. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Nice you are finally acknowledging he is running things. This will make it much more enjoyable at the Tolbert's party in February.

    :ousucksnana:
     
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