I also like X's pod system, but for a somewhat different reason. The teams in the proposed expanded Big 12 are going to want some regular access to the two hottest recruiting beds, Texas and Florida. If there's not enough divisional crossover games (East teams don't play in Texas enough, west teams don't play in Florida enough) a big reason for the new teams to join up is being wasted. Something else was touched on above...a big reason the old Big 12 blew up and could be raided was no real sense of ownership, membership, among member schools. The proposed new Big 12 needs EVERY member of the conference to feel like an important part of the conference. Regular games between teams from the divisions will be important in making every team feel a sense of ownership of the new Big 12. If this expansion happens, I don't want the new Big 12 to feel like just a conglomeration of teams with nothing in common. That's what the old Big 12 felt like.
HornSwoggler: Sorry for the confusion. There are still two "divisions" in the league, but each "division" is comprised of 2 pods apiece. Also, the pods that comprise each "division" change every year as follows:Year 1:Pod 1 & Pod 2 = Division APod 3 & Pod 4 = Division B Year 2: Pod 1 & Pod 3 = Division A Pod 2 & Pod 4 = Division B Year 3: Pod 1 & Pod 4 = Division A Pod 2 & Pod 3 = Division B Year 4: Cycle repeats (reverse home-and-home) At the end of each year, the winner of Division A plays the winner of Division B in a "Conference Championship Playoff Game". Under current NCAA rules there can only be a 1-level playoff within a conference. If that rule changes, then you could have a 2-level playoff among pod winners, etc. To me, annual changing divisions is a good potential feature of a pod league because it allows some of the less consistently great programs a better shot at the conference title when they do field a great team. For better visualization, consider Speedway's league: SW Pod 1 “Lone Star”: Texas, Texas Tech, Texas Christian, Baylor NW Pod 2 “Plains”: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State SE Pod 3 “Dixie”: Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech NE Pod 4 “Yankee”: Notre Dame, West Virginia, Maryland, Iowa State
XOVER, By the way thanks for the effort telling us how the pods work. I have another question to ask. Considering Notre Dame will not be joining a conference anytime soon, I suspect the Big 12 will move to fourteen teams for the time being. Leaving room for Notre Dame and a team they want to come with them. Let’s say FSU, Miami, Clemson and Georgia Tech join the Big 12. How would the scheduling look for the fourteen team league. West TEXAS Oklahoma Oklahoma St TCU Texas Tech Baylor Iowa St East Florida St Miami Clemson Georgia Tech Kansas Kansas St West Virginia Use these as crossover games every year TEXAS vs Georgia Tech Oklahoma vs Clemson Oklahoma St vs Miami TCU vs Florida St Texas Tech vs Kansas St Baylor vs Kansas Iowa St vs West Virginia
OK, XOVER, I see now. When you mentioned earlier the changing of pods, I thought you meant changing which teams are in each pod as opposed to rearranging the pods (with permanent members) in the two divisions. I, too, like this feature to keep a fresh feeling every year with a different schedule. Also, it reduces the chance of a dominant division controlling the conference. It does seem to increase travel but not by much. I still see the rival game as a difficult obstacle in that Texas gets OU every year while TCU might get KU every year (or WVU gets ISU), for example. Hard to justify forced unequal schedule difficulty. I like simplicity and I am hardheaded. I still prefer the 9/3 approach - each season you have 3 games in your own pod, 4 games from your division's other pod, 2 games from each of the two "other division" pods....& 3 OOC games. Divisional Pod pairing rotates on 3 year basis. In short, Texas would play each team in Pods 2, 3 & 4, two out of every three years. An added thought, each team could (but it is not required to) schedule a "rival" game using an OOC game that would not impact conference standings. For example, during the one year in three that UT does not play OU as part of the conference schedule, they could play an OOC game against OU in order to keep that annual rivalry game intact. Just a thought!
Florida State and Miami don't have a huge allegiance to the ACC...neither has been in that conference that long. The 'Noles, 'Canes, and Clemson are ALL football-first schools in a basketball-first conference, where the power resides along Tobacco Road. There's the thought at Florida State, Clemson, Miami, and to a degree, Georgia Tech that their football programs are being held back by ACC membership and other factors. Now, the main reason those programs will seriously look at moving to the Big 12...MONEY. The Big 12 tier one and two contracts are better than the ACC's, and about to get a lot better. The Big 12 allows teams to keep their tier three rights, which the ACC doesn't...that's a whole 'nother income stream. Florida State's athletic program is operating in the red, and the programs at the other schools aren't that robust. Money talks, and you know what walks. One other consideration...competition breeds excellence. If those programs make the jump to the Big 12, they're moving into a conference that includes UT, OU, OSU, West Virginia, TCU, perhaps even Notre Dame at some point, namely, solid football programs. The ACC just doesn't offer that level of competition to football-first schools. I'd say all of the above are solid reasons why the ACC schools are interested in jumping to the Big 12...and that interest is more than just an internet rumor. Check out the fan boards of those schools.
I nominate coolhorn to get the ball rolling on this. I expect to have this task completed NLT 07-01-2012. All kidding aside, I would love for this to happen. The sooner the better. No pun intended.
The funny thing is, I'm no insider. I have no "assets", no "big cigars", and I don't talk to coaches, players, or administrators at UT. I just pay attention to various things written in various places, and in some cases, things that aren't being denied. Bob Dylan said "You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." The Big 12 can't afford, longterm, to sit at ten teams. The teams being mentioned for expansion, especially the ACC teams and potentially Notre Dame, are way too attractive to ignore. I know some are questioning how attractive Clemson is, but trust me, they are NOT aggy redux. They're also the likely first domino to fall after the Big 12 picks a new commissioner. The only question is which school will be chosen as the complimentary 14th team when expansion happens. Even that won't be a question if Georgia Tech comes over with the other three. If not, I'm inclined to believe Louisville gets the offer. I think all of this starts to happen before the end of the year, and maybe before the end of the summer if the Big 12 picks the right commissioner. In any event, I'm a lot more optimistic than I was that the Big 12 will be one of the big four conferences left standing after realignment is done.
I'm not crazy 'bout Louisville. The others would be great. I wouldnt jump off a bridge if Louisville came in, as long as FSU came with them. TEXAS vs. FSU!!!! Gets the blood circulating dont it..
I don't think anybody gets the warm fuzzies over the 'Ville, but they do bring a significant TV market, they'd make a great traveling partner for West Virginia, they're in the same time zone as the ACC schools, and they'd give the Big 12 even more of a presence in SEC country, with close access to B1G country as well. They also contribute a quality basketball program and an improving football product. I've seen questions about how many posteriors they put in seats for football, but I can't help but think they'd attract better crowds if they're in a better conference. The Big 12 as it is now is a massive improvement over the Big (L)east.
If we could merge the ACC trio (Florida State, Miami, and Clemson), you would then need to give thought to ND in the future. ND would prefer a prospective conference that contains one or more members located in the northeastern corridor, which spans from Washington DC through New York City to Boston. ND especially loves cultivating a presence in NYC for Olympic sports recruiting reasons. If you want to set yourself up for tremendous media exposure, plus set yourself up for possibly attracting ND, you would try to add Maryland, Rutgers, or Boston College. The most desirable at #14 would be Maryland, IMO, for various reasons. No, none of these northeastern schools are "sports powerhouses", that's for sure. But if you can add the ACC trio, you don't need another sports powerhouse. You suddenly have the luxury to consider TV viewers, both now and going into the long-term future. Louisville gives you a basketball powerhouse, potentially above-average football, and a very small DMA compared to the DMA of Maryland, Rutgers, or Boston College. Plus, those 3 schools do entice ND, because of location, while Louisville simply does not. Louisville may well become a part of the Big 12 someday. But you have to first wait and see what the ACC trio will do before you even consider adding Louisville. Louisville isn't going anywhere. There is no hurry on Louisville. And if the ACC trio does come, I think the smart play is the "Northeastern Option" and not the "SEC Challenge Option", both in terms of lucre and in terms of baiting the Domers. coolhorn and I disagree on this point.
I actually like Maryland, Georgia Tech, or Boston College as options for the 14th Big 12 member better than Louisville. Rutgers does little or nothing for me. I'm not pushing for Louisville...I just don't know how much interest Georgia Tech, Boston College, or Maryland have for moving to the Big 12. I actually think Pitt might be a good compromise choice for the 14th team...I just wonder if they'd be interested in another move after so recently being accepted into the ACC. I do agree with X that the alignment of Clemson, Florida State, and Miami have to happen first...I just think the Big 12 is going to have to have a fourth team ready when the big three are. I'm not sure which of the candidates will be that 14th team.
coolhorn: We are a lot closer on the Louisville issue than I realized. You like Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Boston College at #14 over Louisville. I like Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Rutgers at #14 over Louisville (if I could choose). I also agree that Pittsburgh could sneak in somewhere. I really like the Northeastern Option. If Miami didn't want to come (and I don't think GT will), I would love to see: Florida State, Clemson, Maryland, Rutgers, and then, later, Notre Dame and Boston College. Run this baby along the entire gamut of the northeastern corridor. Plant that Big 12 flag up the coast from Washington DC to Baltimore to Philadelphia to New York City to Boston. Did you see those quotes from Oliver Luck on expansion today?:
Luck is seriously being considered for Big 12 commissioner. He has ties to Texas and the southwest, and is considered an up and comer in college football circles. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's chosen this summer.
I really don't want the conference to move too quickly on a new commissioner, unless the leading candidate is an obvious slam dunk. This is an incredibly important hire. The conference is in infinitely better shape now than it was just a few months ago. However, its' survival still isn't assured. The Big XII MUST expand, and MUST bring in the right teams in expanding. A ten team conference with no championship game will NOT hold up long term against the PAC, B1G, and SEC. The three ACC teams currently interested in the Big XII would represent a significant upgrade, especially if one more attractive team can be found to add to the mix. It also has to be kept in mind that conference moves must also be made with an eye toward ultimately attracting Notre Dame. What we're talking about is a pretty delicate balancing act. The new commissioner HAS to be pro-expansion, needs significant media savvy, must be expert at dealing in smoke-filled rooms, and must convince ALL current members of the conference to play nice with each other for the long term good of the conference. The new commissioner's gonna have to have the skills to hit the ground running with all of these issues, and be able to address current issues while planning for the future. Sounds like quite a lot on his, or her plate, doesn't it? It will be imperative for the new commissioner to have the unqualified support of all ten current conference members. The Big XII COULD become a preeminent athletic conference, or an afterthought still. I happen to think the person who heads the conference going forward as commissioner is going to strongly determine which way the Big XII goes. I don't really want that person being hired without being properly vetted, and guaranteed to be the best possible commissioner candidate out there. The decision is just too important.
Xover, this is one of the best summaries I have read. Thanks and great job!! Coolhorn, you make some great points!! What do you think of the new big 12 commish? Is this a correct assumption as of what we know right now? A)new Bcs deal that will allow ND to get special circumstances and if so ND will remain Independent(in football at least and might join a conference for other sports) and then allow Fsu/Clemson to leave Acc. 1)for the Big 12. 2)Sec could say well if Acc is breaking down why dont we just take Fsu and assuming the next logical choice would be VT(but you can place a couple if other Acc teams as #2). B)new Bcs deal that doesnt give ND a special clause and forces ND to join a conference. ND could choose btw the 2 most likely destinations, Acc and Big 12. 1)if ND chooses Big 12, then many other programs will want to come to Big 12 to make it 12, 14 or 16 teams. 2)If ND chooses Acc, they become stable and Fsu/Clemson dont leave and Big 12 stays at 10 teams. I dont see Lousiville + 1 other team likely unless its a big program. Is this a fair assumption? If so, I don't really like either of the #2 options. Personally I think the teams will come from the east or Byu will be out, Louisville is still an option. Every conf has team that usually wont make bowl games and arnt very good. But I agree, there are better fish out there. I do love the idea of 16 team league with 4 teams per pod. Can/would VT split from Virgina? They are a football school in a basketball conf but ties like Ou and Ok st might prevent the split. With the pitt, Louisville and Maryland discussion. I like Maryland bc of Tv sets (but it must be written in the contract that they can not wear those horrible uniforms) and then Pitt(great for Wvu and ND). If I could just choose, It would clearly be GT. Great Sec city and academics(not that I ever see academics mattering) and also a great and easy flight to Atl for all fans to travel to. Speedway’s 4 pods are a dream! Texas Texas Tech TCU Baylor Oklahoma Oklahoma St Kansas Kansas St Florida St Miami Clemson Georgia Tech Notre Dame West Virginia Maryland Iowa St You cant have Tx and Ou in the same pod bc it would make the other pod(from big 12) horribly weak and u are screwing one of the 3 other Texas teams. Xover, great layout of a 16 team league. Everyone wins in that situation and all schools will get to go to the state of Texas very other year so it’s a win for them. And schools will get to go to the state of Florida frequently also. Thanks!
I think the Big XII expands, but in steps. If FSU and Clemson are doable, and I think they are, they will be the first two new additions. Everything done in Big XII expansion will be done with one eye on Notre Dame, and what it will take to make the Big XII their most attractive option. The Big XII also really needs to find one or two traveling partners for West Virginia. Louisville's an option, but not necessarily the best one. I think Pitt may come into play here, even though they've just jumped to the ACC. Georgia Tech's very attractive, IF they would have any interest in the Big XII. Miami is only attractive as a traveling partner to Fla. State. BYU has a big following, but also still has that ban on playing on Sunday. They also have the misfortune of being a western team. I think the Big XII is looking much more eastward. Maryland might bring east coast tv sets, but otherwise, doesn't do much for me. Notre Dame? A lot depends on what replaces the BCS, and how Notre Dame fits in the equation. A lot also depends on how their sweetheart deal with NBC is handled. The two questions concerning the Irish...will they join a conference in football? If so, which conference offers them the best deal? One of Bowlsby's big jobs is to make sure the Big XII is the right answer to that second question. There's still too many moving parts to say anything definitively about Big XII expansion. Bowlsby hasn't even moved into his new Dallas office yet. I can say it's nice that the Big XII is perhaps looking to get bigger. It was less than a year ago that the conference was looking more like road kill. I think Chuck Neinas deserves props for that change.
I think this will be great for the conference to have a couple of good football schools. WVU, FSU, and Clemson in one division and OSU, OU, and Texas in another would make for great conference championship games. Also, Big XII is much more football school friendly than the ACC. You would also see match ups that pit players from 2 of the most talent rich states face off against each other. Make it happen!
The new Acc deal came out today and $17 million/team, bit more than the $15mill but not much. I feel the key to the break up of Acc is what side is Espn on, are they pro or against it. I feel the Sec will do what it can to stop the Big 12 influx to Florida. I feel if Fsu/Clemson come Miami will probably come along. I didnt like it at first but i am more ok with 2 teams from the state of Florida. teams from the other side of the conference get to go to the state twice as often. Also, if Miami comes they can be the partner with Fsu and Wvu can have Clemson. If it ever goes to 16 teams, that can be a pod.
It's way too soon to be discussing alignment of a proposed expanded Big XII. That being said, I kinda doubt the conference will ever go to pods. If six new teams eventually are brought in, I think there will be east and west divisions. I don't disagree that Miami has recent history of success on their side, and a rising new coach in Al Golden. However, the 'Canes aren't a terrific draw in their hometown, and don't usually travel well. A change of scenery might change those things, but I think their best chance is to come in as a partner with FSU. Clemson's not next door to West Virginia, but closer than any Big XII team right now. Louisville doesn't excite me, except for their basketball program, but Pitt would be a great traveling partner with West Virginia. They're solid in both football and basketball, and Pitt's tv market would definitely be a nice add for the Big XII. Pitt would also be an attractive potential conference member for Notre Dame. All of this stuff is speculation right now, but based on what I'm seeing with the new ACC tv contract, it's not gonna sway FSU and Clemson from seriously looking into a jump to the Big XII. I wouldn't be surprised to see Georgia Tech also start looking into a move. The ACC is a basketball-first conference, and that isn't gonna change. It doesn't set well with the football-first schools over there. The ACC's best long-term bet might be to work out some kind of merger with what's left of the Big East, since that's also primarily a basketball conference. In any event, I think the next several months are going to be very interesting around here.
I just don't see how the Big 12 can avoid making additional expansion moves this year. All the other major conferences now have a conference championship in football. I just can't see the Big 12 finishing the 2013 season without having a conference championship game. (No Big 12 member can make a valid argument for not having a football championship game when we all know money is the driver.) I also think the Big 12 is headed toward at least a 14-team league, with all the new members coming from the east. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the Big 12 is first looking at the ACC for new members. Let's extend invitations to Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Virginia Tech, and Maryland and see what happens. That's certainly a bombshell move, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Big 12 does need to expand but not just any 2 or 4 or 6 teams. No Louisville now, maybe later and no Cincinnati.
Louisville is gonna be there for the taking down the road, IF the Big XII wants to go that route. IF/WHEN the Big XII decides to get bigger, I'd expect Florida State and Clemson to get the first two offers. Yeah, I know the FSU AD today said the 'Noles are committed to the ACC. That's what you say when the time isn't right to get things out in public. Remember how committed Nebraska was to the Big XII, until they weren't? Mizzou last summer? Actually, agricultural is the only conference jumper I remember who made their wishes known ahead of time, and it made them look like imbeciles when the SEC didn't immediately offer 'em. I think the Big XII could kick the tires on Georgia Tech and Pitt, and even Miami, before considering Louisville. BYU? I don't think that's happening. Point of fact...I doubt there will be any kind of official word from Bob Bowlsby on expansion until late summer or early fall, at the earliest.
Coolhorn great point about the AD's statements. I agree that rathervthan runbto louisville make sure that an attmpt is made to get FSU, Clemson, Miami, GT and Pitt. That combination offers geogrpahy with a SE pod a NE pod (sorry isu), rivalries (WV-Pitt, FSU-U, FSU-Clemson) TV match-ups ( Texas-FSU, Miami-ou), significant markets (miami, atl, pitt) and academics. Plus seems like that group would appeal to ND. Once the remining ACC tems grabbed Louisville, UConn and Rutgers +- two other teams ND would need a new home. At the very least for non-fb.
