The conference could easily be called the Big XII.5 if what X says happens. FSU and Clemson become all-in members. (Basically, all they need is the invitation and they're here.) Getting Notre Dame is a bit trickier. Take their Olympic sports first, with a guarantee that they'll play at least four, and up to six games a year against Big XII teams. That makes them an affiliate of the Big XII, but let's them keep their precious "independent" status for another year or two. It also buys the Big XII time to consider a traveling partner if/when Notre Dame wants in the Big XII full time. I'm channeling Mike Slive here, but I don't think the Big XII wants to go above 12 all-in members right now, and doesn't want to go to fourteen ever...the SEC has already realized that's an unwieldy number. If you stop and think about it, if the Big XII adds FSU and Clemson to an already salty lineup of UT, OU, OSU, West Virginia, TCU, KSU, a rapidly-improving Baylor, a solid Tech, and ISU and KU, which are at least getting incrementally-better, then add Notre Dame to the mix as an affiliate team, you've got a heck of a conference, even if no other changes are made. There are some other teams out there (UNC, VT, GT) that would add value to the Big XII, but I look for them to be headed to the B1G or SEC by the time the Big XII.5 would even be interested in further expansion. Oh, and one other thing...for those concerned that the Irish might "play" the Big XII for a while to their benefit...the Big XII is NOT the Big (L)east, and IF Notre Dame gets shoved toward full conference membership in football, the Big XII has several legs up on any other conference.
I'm interested in what the Dude's saying...he's been right a whole lot more than he hasn't. As for UNC, I posted on an FSU site that they'll be the last one out of the room and turning off the lights if the ACC blows up. The only conference they'd have any interest in other than the ACC is the B1G, and even then only if that's their only option to stay relevant in basketball. There's a reason Mack Brown's the UT football head coach, instead of still at UNC, and it mostly has to do with the fact UNC fans care diddly about football. UNC would improve the Big XII's ability to be snooty, but that's about it for the Heels.
^^^ Exactly coolhorn! You hit the nail on the head... This is from "The Dude of WVU" 's Blog and the last entry was a week ago... I just read and update from him over on 247Sports/Hookem.com & will post it here as well! Linky...
I'll be interested to see what the dude has to say after yesterday...lots of interesting moves may be imminent.
Tweet from The Dude of a couple hours ago... the wheels of expansion may be rolling! The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV A little birdy tells me the B12 expansion committee may hold a teleconference this weekend. I wonder why?
This article was tweeted a short time ago from the Dude... Linky... This was posted on 247Sports/hookem.com... Also from "The Dude" "Here's what I've learned today... Clemson was ready to pull the trigger but just prior to the BoT meeting Bowlsby informed Clemson an offer would not be forthcoming until the BCS format was known and Notre Dame's conference fate was known. Clemson was offended and pulled back. The Big 12 tried to sooth Clemson's hurt feelings and but Clemson was being told by Swofford that ND was going to join the ACC and Clemson was firm in their renewed commitment to the ACC." FSU didn't believe Swofford and decided to go ahead knowing that if they left Clemson would be hard pressed to stay in the ACC. Today it became clear that ND was actually close to becoming an associate member of the Big 12 and that whatever BCS format is forwarded to the presidential committee would not be good for the ACC in that ND could retain its football independence. Clemson was told by FSU they are going to the Big 12 with or without them (partly as a bluff to get Clemson to join) and as soon as Clemson realized the ACC's chances of getting Notre Dame were slim to none they changed their mind. It could happen as early as this weekend. Keep in mind this comes from someone other than my friend at WVU. He has been playing coy lately and refusing to answer pointed questions. He did confirm a move by the Big 12 soon."
....And the realignment wheels just keep on turning. Now Jerry Jones wants to throw some gasoline on the fire with his odd wish of Arkansas and Notre Dame to the Big 12. This is an interesting off season! LINK
It's a lot more fun when you're talking about adding good teams to the Big XII, rather than losing mediocre ones.
Pizzon Jerrah. The B12 took the Frogs back, but they didn't want to leave the old SWC anyway. The hogs voluntarily left the SWC for a muddier pig sty. Let 'em keep rooting around in it.
arkeysaw has showed up from time to time in the last couple of decades on the Horns' schedule, and I haven't been particularly wild about that. Color me whizzed off if there's any traction to the idea that the swine could EVER wind up again in any league UT is a part of. I guess I'm just a small person, but some grudges I hold longer than others. I've heard all the explanations for why pig headed to the SEC, but I still blame them primarily for the demise of the old SWC. I'll take that to the grave with me, and would be perfectly happy if I NEVER see any more dolts with pig hats.
What a horrible article about Arkansas to the Big XII. It states that Arkansas wants to move to a conference with former SWC rivals Texas and Texas A&M. I think we all know that no conference as such will exist in the fall of 2012.
There's some chatter over on Tomahawk Nation that the ACC has made some kind of super offer to Notre Dame, and that Clemson is now saying they'll wait to see what ND does before committing to a move to the Big XII. Talk over there is that FSU will still make the move to the Big XII, but that there will be a problem for our conference in finding a 12th team. Do I believe all of this? Not really...it sounds like some ACC hardliners holding out hope for an Irish miracle. I'm not sure what that conference could offer without completely tearing up the financial structure for every other team in the ACC. Still, if XOVER or one of the others posting on this thread has some more concrete info, I'd love to see it posted.
Nobody over there is quoting any figures, although I did see 35 million a year for ND in the ACC, but you'd better believe FSU fans are saying the 'Noles also have to get paid to stay. Unless Swofford has some kind of rabbit hidden in his hat, I don't see what the ACC can offer the Irish that counters what they'd get from the Big XII. Still, a lot of ND fans are in love with the idea of joining, and running, the ACC if they have to go to a conference. There's no way an ACC deal with ND gets done without throwing the bank to the Irish, and if that happens, there will be more discontent in that conference long term than the Big XII has ever seen.
Agree, coolhorn. Rumored: a) ACC (Swofford) promises ND $35M to go fulltime ACC. b) FSU wants the same to stay. c) ACC says we don't have $70M for you both,,,,and where is your share of the 35? d) FSU says howdy, B12. e) Clem sits around playing with his peter. f) Lou says 'member me? g) ND realizes short-term gain for long-term pain in a b-ball conf. h) have a nice day.
Couldn't have said it better myself Horny...FSU fans, for the most part, are ready for the 'Noles to get their Big XII offer this weekend. I'd like Clemson as a traveling partner, but when it comes right down to it, I'd have no problem with going back to twelve with FSU and the 'Ville. For the record, I don't believe ND is dumb enough to go ACC, given that there are only gonna be four power conferences, and the ACC ain't one of 'em.
there are rumors flying around that ACC has made a Hail Mary attempt and offered ND 1.5 shares of ACC to everyone else's 1 share. This and Louisville would allow ACC to renegotiate contract and raise the value for all schools. Still don't know how I'd feel if I was FSU about another school being offered 1.5 shares, if true.
Even if the story is true, where will the ACC come up with the money without shorting the other members? Maybe ESPN redoes their contract, but would adding the Irish add enough TV revenue to make the deal work? There's also the other conference teams to consider...FSU is deeply unhappy, and no guarantee to stay, even if ND does head to the ACC. I'm guessing that in a short time, several other teams would get really tired of Notre Dame's sweetheart deal. Notre Dame, for their part, if they really weigh the pluses and minuses of the Big XII versus the ACC, would have to agree that their long term future is best served with an affiliation with the Big XII. I've also noticed that the B1G, which has been chasing the Irish longer than any conference and has a regional advantage with them, is sitting out this round of chasing Notre Dame. Maybe they're smart for doing so, and maybe the Big XII should be just as smart. One other thing about ND...the Big XII is going to be okay whether or not the Irish affiliate with the conference. I would NOT want the Big XII getting into some kind of bidding war with the ACC for Irish affections. There's nothing wrong with the Big XII staying at ten teams for the time being. I've never been crazy about the Big XII giving Notre Dame the same arrangement they got from the Big (L)east.
Coolhorn I'm with you on this....the Big 12 should not try to break the bank to get ND. Personally, I'm wondering why all the BCS conferences keep giving them a seat at the table. Yes, I know they are an icon in college football with lots of history but so is UT, Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, etc. They should not have been allowed at the playoff table.
Notre Dame today isn't your father's Notre Dame. They're probably not even your older brother's Notre Dame. The major college football landscape is changing, and even a program with the storied history of the Irish is going to find it increasingly difficult to remain both independent and relevant. I'm not saying Notre Dame isn't a national brand name. Their affiliation with the Catholic church guarantees that. However, Notre Dame is getting pinched in recruiting, and that's really hurting their overall football success. The Irish used to get a lot of players out of California. Not anymore, with the success of USC, Cal, Stanford, Oregon and others. ND hit Texas pretty hard, but it's been years since they've pulled in a significant player from Texas. The SEC schools are doing a really good job of keeping the Irish from taking much out of the southland. They still get talent out of the midwest, and the east coast New York, New Jersey, and New England areas, but even there, they lose a lot more to the B1G schools than they used to. Their last really successful head coach was Lou Holtz, and that was two decades ago. Notre Dame is still a big national draw, and that makes them attractive to conferences looking to expand. Like others here, I wouldn't mind if the Big XII did some kind of affiliation with ND. However, I see no need for the Big XII to bet the farm on the Irish coming. The ACC is in much more critical shape, and I doubt that even luring ND to that conference will make much difference. The ACC isn't going to be one of the big four football conferences, and I'm pretty sure Notre Dame's athletic administration has that figured out. The Big XII is going to be just fine with the ten teams it has. I'm of the school that the conference does NOT need to expand unless the right two teams are available. FSU is a "right" team. I'm not so sure about a lot of the other names being tossed out there. It may be that ten is enough...there should be no hurry to expand, just for the sake of expanding.
The report coming out of the expansion committee is that someone is blocking Clemson and FSU in the hope that ND joins as a full member. For f**k sake, you take FSU and Clemson to get to 12 and then worry about hitting the homerun later.
I seriously hope it's not us blocking the offer to FSU and Clemson...I do NOT share Dodds' enthusiasm for ND at the expense of the two ACC schools.
The ND "issue". Posted basically same thing on another board. ND will not give up independence unless all of the following change. 1. Forced by playoff committee to join conference. The big 5 or 4.5 will never vote for this. If ACC voted for this, how much do they lose if ND chooses the BIG or B12. How much do BIG or B12 lose if they join ACC? SEC doesn't want another conference to get big tv bump. PAC could lose 2 marquee games a year. 2. BCS committee members don't want to be known as guy that killed "tradition". They are very conservative by nature so it is unlikely they step out on a limb that far. 3. Money: If ND gets 2/3's of what big boys get, forget about it. Money doesn't drive their bus. 4. Recruiting: ND's biggest issue. They can't admit they have a problem and (just like us in the 80's-90's) think that the 1 coach or 1 good year will turn their fortunes around. Until there is an intervention they will never admit there is a problem.
Agreed Fishy...I don't think ND is coming through the Big XII's door as anything but an affiliate, and parking their olympic sports here. Frankly, that doesn't excite me. This is one time that Dodds' agenda isn't mine. The Big XII doesn't NEED the Irish, even if some in the conference want them. The conference should NOT blow the chance to add an excellent football school like FSU, and another quality ACC team. (Maybe Clemson, maybe Ga. Tech.). I seriously hope the FSU deal gets done in the next day or two...competitively, the 'Noles bring a lot more to the table than ND.
