To Be a Democrat Today...

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by dukesteer, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    I would love to know why you think what you think because I damn sure can’t figure it out. Please, enlighten us.
     
  2. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Husker, instead of criticizing, again, no one is stopping you from refuting just a few of the assertions.
     
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  3. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Liberal positions:

    1) Immigration: Abolish ICE, Sanctuary cities, benefits for illegals
    2) Reparations
    3) Critical Race Theory (From the CRT perspective, the white skin that some Americans possess is akin to owning a piece of property, in that it grants privileges to the owner that a renter (in this case, a person of color) would not be afforded; The use of narrative to illuminate and explore experiences of racial oppression)
    4) White Privilege campaign - covers a lot of ground but the way it's being pushed is that you will be cancelled if you are not EXTREMELY adept in articulating ANY level of dissent.
    5) Destruction of fossil fuel industry
    6) Raise taxes
    7) Circumvent the Constitution by virtue of Liberal SCOTUS justices (Sotomayor who votes as a Latina first, as a jurist second)
    8) Abolish Electoral College
    9) More stringent gun control (see Beto being chosen by Biden to lead gun control initiatives)
    10) Green Deal - TRILLION DOLLAR wealth redistribution scheme
    11) Believe the victim (accusation means guilt) except for Liberal politicians
    12) Defund the police
    13) Incoherent foreign policy except for esoteric view of being respected by Europe, the birthplace of white supremacy, colonialism and slavery.
    14) Cancel Culture

    I get some of these things are debatable or a matter of degree (#'s 7 and 9) but the aggression on the remaining list is very obvious to me. The neo-progressives aka totalitarian socialists see Republicans as evil and moderate Democrats (can you believe Feinstein has now achieved moderate status?) as sell-outs to be cancelled. The Totalitarians believe in Marxism if not by name, then by the continental drift of their demands that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS WITHOUT A COUNTERWEIGHT OF DISSENT FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  4. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Centralizing political power and then having that body decide more and more things for the nation is central planning. That is Socialist, Marxists, whatever you want to call it. When the Federal Government has the plan for your life, and you don't want to go along what do they do?

    The Democratic Party is pushing the US in this direction and has been for a while. The thing that makes it hard to admit to for some Democrats is that the Party hasn't explicitly attacked the idea of private property yet. BLM, Antifa, Leftist professors all attack the idea. It is just a matter of time until the Party does to.
     
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  5. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts


    Here is some analysis of Critical Race Theory:

    "[T]he theory [is] radical…in the sense that it questions fundamental assumptions.… And unlike some strands of academic and legal thought, critical race theory has an open and activist agenda, with an emphasis on storytelling and personal experience. It's about righting wrongs, not just questing after knowledge.… [M]any of their ideas are not radical today in the sense of being outside the mainstream: Critical race theory is widely taught and studied."

    When property ownership is defined as a wrong, then how do you right it? CENTRAL GOVERNMENT POWER.
     
  6. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Critical Theory covers all aspects of life. CRT just focuses on race. All of life is being attacked in US universities.

    Exactly. Government ownership of all. Slavery of all to government.
     
  7. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Surely you can understand why I don't want to spend time refuting your caricature of me, right? You boasted that you posted the same passage on Nextdoor with the explicit expectation of being censored. You aren't interested in a conversation or even debate.

    Rather than build a list based on your perception of others, opponents, why don't you start by defining your own platform. The RNC said their platform is explicitly Trump's platform, whatever that means.
     
  8. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    A Conservative agenda/platform is an interesting question. Start with the Constitution. Live with that. Given, it's an idealistic comment, but if you start with that basic philosophy, it stands to reason that nothing needs to be done EXCEPT GET A GRIP ON THE FEDERAL BUDGET, so it puts Conservatives into the role of saying no.

    There is a revolution going on whether or not you wish to acknowledge it's huge impact on the Liberal platform. Conservatives are now in the position of defending themselves. They are being called Nazi's and White Supremacists. This is mainstream now with Liberals. That is my firm belief.

    So what platform is left for Conservatives? Ride it out and hope the damage done to stop what needs to be stopped will be minimal.
     
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  9. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    The majority of the Lib's platform is unsustainable/harmful/destructive, and indefensible from both logical and historical perspectives. Big government is for the weak of mind and spirit. That is why they won't even try and defend it as a whole, and often flat out lie about what they are attempting to accomplish. To Biden's credit, at least he admits he wants higher taxes despite the fact that this will hurt the economy and the majority of Americans.

    Maybe OUBubba could help SH out here despite the lack of subject matter involving urination, which seems to be Bubba's expertise.
     
  10. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    You defined "conservative" not the Republican platform. Clearly fiscal conservatism is NOT part of the current Republican priorities. I can appreciate the "start with the Constitution" approach except that's a 100k feet view whereas dukesteer attempted to jump to the 1k feet view to apply his perception on Democrats. As always, the Devil is in the Details so I'm curious about getting more detail. For example, the Constitution does not define "life" which is why you can't start with the document when determining a position in the pro-life/pro-choice debate.

    I'm curious if you've ever called progressives "socialists" or "communists"? Is that also part of the revolution? Neither direction is particularly helpful in furthering our political dialogue, IMHO.

    The answer is win elections. We've heard the last 4 years that elections have consequences. Progressives need to win elections so they can implement their vision. I'm hoping for a "blue wave" but time will tell whether that materializes. My only hope is that the centrists (read: adults) in the party rule the day. The extremists and purely partisans from both parties need to have a diminished roles but that's my idealism prevailing.
     
  11. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    I suspect the framers of the constitution never foresaw a need to define life, but I have no link to prove that.
     
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  12. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Nor could they foresee such thorny topics like Bio Ethics with regards to stem cell usage, cloning, genetic modification or neural implants which is why the "start with the Constitution" isn't enough detail to define ones views.
     
  13. humahuma

    humahuma 250+ Posts

    I think Obama first said elections have consequences, conservatives are just using his own words. Mocking him.
     
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  14. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    No SH but it is always a good ‘place to start’.
     
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  15. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Nice dodge, but it won’t work with me.
     
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  16. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Duke
    After Husker made a fool of himself by trying to say Trump allowed 400,000 Chinese into our country after Trump issued the ban
    when in fact it was 40k American citizens and legal green card holders I expect based on his past MO he will be "busy" for awhile.
     
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  17. HornHuskerDad

    HornHuskerDad 5,000+ Posts

    FIFY.
     
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  18. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    I surely do.
     
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  19. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    No I don't .
     
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  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    No offense, but these lists are dumb and Husker is pretty much right. They are a self-serving caricature of the Democratic position - sorta like a Democrat saying, "to be a Republican today, you have to believe the federal government should be controlling women's bodies, that it's ok for the President to bang porn stars, etc. . .". And of course, I've seen plenty of Democratic-authored lists that present caricatures of Republican lists that way, and they're just as dumb.

    They're also dumb, because they deny the individuality of people's voting preferences. We vote against someone or some people far more than we vote for something. Some of these caricatures may be accurate of the Democratic activist base, but plenty of Democratic voters are voting against Trump far more than they're voting to endorse a particular policy agenda of Biden's. (Anecdotally, most Biden voters I know were Romney voters 8 years ago.) For example, millions of people in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin will vote for Biden. How many of them actually think we should ban fracking or support the Green New Deal? How many of them think Hunter Biden got his gig with Burisma because he was well-qualified to work in the Ukrainian oil and gas business? Probably damn near none. They're voting against Trump and hoping the crap pitched by the crazy people on Biden's team gets stopped by sanity combined with a little partisan obstruction.

    It goes the other way too. I voted for Trump this time (and then took a shower), but that wouldn't make a Democrat's caricature of Trump accurate of me. I wasn't voting to "control women's bodies." I wasn't voting to endorse porn star banging. I wasn't voting "against brown people" or for "white supremacy." I wasn't even voting for fairer presentations of Trump. I wasn't voting for the wall. I wasn't voting for goofing around with Kim Jong Il and Vladimir Putin. I was voting against court packing and those who would threaten that. No more, no less.
     
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  21. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    To be honest, I think the majority of them have no idea what kind of crap is pitched by the crazy people on Biden's team. They know the crazy crap pitched against Trump though.
     
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  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'm sure plenty of them don't.
     
  23. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Deez, good response. However, the assertions I have made are consistent with the rhetoric coming from the Democratic Party, from their surrogates, from the MSM who carries their water, and even from the candidates themselves in many cases.

    You are welcome to refute a handful of the assertions but again, if those assertions represent the talking points coming from the sources I have identified above, then my argument, “To Be a Democrat Today,” would seem to be validated.
     
  24. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I think the people in the middle don't decide the primary. Do all Republicans belive global warming is a hoax? Nah, but if you want to win the nomination, you better not sound like you see it as a threat.
     
  25. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I don't disagree that there are facets of the Democratic activist base (which includes party officials, surrogates, and the media) that believe your descriptions to various degrees. However, you can "be a Democrat" (as in generally voting for Democrats) without believing the same things as the activist base or believing them in part but to a lesser degree. You can also be voting Democratic because you believe the caricatures of what it means to "be a Republican" and want to deny power to its leadership. So my point isn't so much that the list is can be refuted about the activist base but that individuals can vote for a lot of reasons that don't have anything to do with the activist base and certainly not every component of the base. That's true of people who vote Democratic and Republican.
     
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    You can win a Republican primary and see global warming as a threat. The policy solutions you back are what make the difference. You can think global warming is a threat but disagree on the immediacy of that threat. You can also think it's a threat and think the policy solution should place more emphasis on adaptation or nuclear power than on cutting emissions with no regard for the cost-benefit of doing so.

    A huge part of the problem with the climate change debate is how it's framed by the Left. They create a false binary. You either support the Green New Deal (a complete reordering of the economy by the government), or you're a "denier." Well, if that's the case, many will choose denialism based on opposition to the idiotic "solution" rather than a sincere belief in denialism.

    Another thing that doesn't help is the Left's own denial of its obvious fallibility. Plenty of predictions made by environmentalists over the last 30 years have been wrong, and all of the really catastrophic predictions have been wrong. However, they never have to answer for that. The media thinks they're doing them a favor by mollycoddling the environmentalists because not doing so would break the "settled science" narrative. However, if you're a skeptic, all that does its foster distrust. I may not think climate change is a hoax, but I do know the climate activists have been bullshitting me for decades to varying degrees.
     
  27. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Definitely valid points. The issue is that if the reasonable liberal base — not the radial Left — remains silent when behavior they observe is clearly not consistent with their belief systems, by their silence, they are subtly endorsing the behavior.

    What we saw from BLM & Antifa in the summer was horrific, and it should concern everyone. Yet the Democrat leadership did nothing. Why?

    When Maxine Waters encouraged aggressive behavior against those with whom she disagrees, the Democrat leadership did nothing. Why?

    When activists in the streets threatened and attacked innocent citizens, the leadership did nothing. Why?

    Such inaction is an endorsement of such behavior. It’s the definition of complicity.
     
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    You're pointing to the "reasonable base" and the "leadership" and blurring them with the typical Democratic voter. In this day and age, there isn't a "reasonable base." Both party bases are pissed off and not in the mood to be reasonable. The party leadership does what the base (which is unreasonable) wants them to do. The voters are a different class of citizens.
     
  29. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Have to disagree. Again, when you have members of one party and it’s supporters assaulting individuals from the other party — and instead of criticizing such behavior, members of Congress are encouraging it — you have a big problem. There is no equivalency on the other side. So no, I don’t buy the argument.

    One other observation: While I, and many like me are happy to engage with those with whom we don’t agree, I am almost never seeing such willingness coming from the Left. It’s stunning. For the most part (no, I didn’t say always), Republicans are willing to engage. For the most part, Democrats are not. If we don’t agree with them, we are evil, racist, and whatever they can think of to call us.

    To your credit, you might be the exception
     
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
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