UK may vote to leave the European Union

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Mr. Deez, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Somebody better tell NJ. He was having some man love thoughts awhile back (when NJ was just wrong!)
     
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  2. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Deez, it's been a long time since I was in France. How "right wing nationalistic" is the Front National? Like compared on the spectrum of Reagan Democrats => Establishment GOP => Texas GOP =>Tea Party => Republic of Texas Separatists => Fascists
     
  3. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Giving credit where credit is due ...


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  4. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    He sells a lot of guns, too.
     
  5. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Would a fascist be to the right of a Republic of Texas separatist? I mean, the only things to the right of that would be the feudal system then anarchists.

    I think this has been discussed on threads before but it seems if you are further right than the republic of texas people, you would end up with anarchy. Fascists are called "far right" but they seem to be center left extremists. All I am saying is that republic of texas people who are one step shy of wanting no government at all and are all about disunity probably do not have much in common with fascists which did away with states completely in Germany and just had one strong central united government.
     
  6. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Good point 77. I have a really bad cold and was just typing. I was thinking about their nationalist sentiments more or less in isolation versus preferred governing style.
     
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  7. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    ^ That makes sense and is a good point. Instead of trying to organize systems of government as right and left we should just organize characteristics of forms of government (governmental control, police power/human rights, economics, isolation/globalism, nationalism, racism/multi culturalism, religion, etc.) as right and left. As far as nationalism goes, your list works perfectly.
     
  8. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I'm very reluctant to compare European political parties with US political parties, because the Left-Right political spectrum (which started in Europe) doesn't really fit US politics very well. (That's why putting fascism on the far right makes no sense to many Americans.) After thinking about it, I think the reason is that there isn't an important place for limited government in European politics. In America, conservatism (the Right) is associated with a limited government, especially when it comes to economic management. In Europe, there's no reason to assume that a Right-wing politician is for a significantly smaller government than a Left-wing politician. From what I can tell, the Left/Right spectrum mostly breaks down nationalism versus globalism.

    If I had to try to try to force the square peg into the round hole, I'd probably put the Front National closest to the Reagan Democrats. They are nationalistic - anti-immigration, supportive of protectionist economic policies on trade, don't want to surrender sovereignty to global organizations (such as the EU), and tend to support customs and border controls (thoroughly detest the Schengen Agreement). They're also more economically liberal (in the American sense). They're OK with a pretty strong social welfare system but are hostile to freeloaders. They tend to be socially conservative (especially by French standards).

    One area where they're not like Reagan Democrats is foreign policy. Like most nationalist parties in Europe (with UKIP being somewhat of an exception), Front National is hostile to NATO and US-skeptic in general. They tend to want France to defend itself and bear no responsibility for defending other nations. They think Putin is pretty studly.
     
  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    You either didn't carefully read what I posted, or you don't know what the word "disproved" means. I haven't said anything that can be disproved. Disagreed with? Sure. Disproved? No, and certainly not by a single anecdote.

    Nevertheless, I commend you for that anecdote. It's a superb article and not superficial, but I don't think he's making the point you suggest. I don't see him linking Brexit to Trump. I see him linking the progressive reaction to Brexit with the progressive reaction to Trump and how that reaction impacts the politics and motivations of those who support Brexit and impliedly, Trump. That's a separate and more nuanced but (somewhat paradoxically) a bigger issue as well.
     
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I'm very pro-Brexit, but this is funny.
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    About that whole Google search thing . . .

    Link.
     
  12. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    steve-patterson.com?

    WTF???o_O
     
  13. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Contradicted would have been a better word choice.
     
  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    When the BBC caption person is so disheartened, she just doesn't care anymore ...


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  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    S&P 500 has recovered 72% so far

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  16. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Amanpour/CNN have their Brexit narrative, can't tolerate facts to the contrary
    Pretty good slapdown by Hannan -- long time coming. Amnapour should have been given the boot long ago

     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  17. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Hannan also suggested Obama may have been the reason the Brexit Referendum passed.
    (See chart I embeded ~14 posts above^^^)

    "DANIEL HANNAN, MEP: He (Obama) did intervene very directly in our system and I have to say he had the opposite effect from the one he intended. There were four opinion polls taken the week after Mr. Obama told us to vote remain and all of them showed a sharp swing to leave and I have to now say, you know I don’t know whether he was a secret agent on our side all along, but he may given the narrowness of the result have been the reason that we’re now a sovereign and independent country again. You know what, I can’t help noticing that you guys voted [to] leave a while ago, it seems to have worked out okay for you."

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...a_may_be_reason_brexit_referendum_passed.html
     
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  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Apparently the EU is criminalizing bottled water companies from claiming their product prevents dehydration. Link.

    And I thought the ban on toasters that can toast more than two pieces of bread at a time was nutty. . .
     
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  19. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    LOL
    First, take the marbles out of your mouth before you speak
    Second, right Tom, let's eliminate social media and go back to the days of letting NBC do the big thinking

     
  20. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Is a Chexit also possible?


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  21. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    There will mass rebellion one day and the Taiwanese government will be invited in to provide legitimacy and social stability, thus giving Chiang Kaisek the last laugh.
     
  22. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I think there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. The various left and rightwing blogs take the bias to the extremes. They aren't held to the same standards as traditional media. Look at New York Times that are called out for any bias and incorrect information. The blogs? They don't have fact checkers. They don't need them because half baked facts and conspiracy theories are the norm.
     
  23. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Fact checking doesn't seem to stop the mainstream media either. They say it, get called out on it, ignore the fact check........repeat.
     
  24. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Are you saying mainstream media never issues corrections? When's the last time Daily Beast or Townhall said "sorry, we were wrong, the facts are..."?
     
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  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  26. mb227

    mb227 de Plorable

    I've noticed that Mini is being extremely prominent in their most recent series of ads about the cars being built in England...curious whether it was already on the drawing board that way or if they regrouped post-vote...
     
  27. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    With Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage both stepping away from leadership roles since the BREXIT referendum was completed, who will be left to govern their way through outcomes of the decision the two aforementioned leaders forced?

    I wonder of anyone in the Leave camp feels a little abandoned at the moment.
     
  28. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Starting to warm up to Boris Johnson --

    - Obama: 'ancestral dislike' of UK
    - Erdogan: has sex with goat (poem)
    - Hillary Clinton: 'sadistic nurse in mental hospital'
     
  29. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    And Boris Johnson was just appointed to be Foreign Minister. The UK appears to be confusing late night talkshow host with bureaucrat.
     
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

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