US - Cuba relations

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BA93, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. BA93

    BA93 1,000+ Posts

    The Link


     
  2. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Explain how you think it will achieve democratic change in a climate where you have a small ruling class that controls the vast majority of the island's wealth, has no vested interest in sharing it and can simply lock anyone up who decides to speak out about it. Do you think that having one more nation sending tourism dollars is going to make the Cuban dictatorship suddenly start regarding its citizens' rights?
     
  3. Shark4

    Shark4 2,500+ Posts

    Useful Idiots

    In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used.
     
  4. TahoeHorn

    TahoeHorn 1,000+ Posts

    How does this compare to other embargos, like the one against South Africa?

    We have mashed the Cuban economy like a bug. The embargo worked in spades as far as a weapon. The only argument I'd have against lifting it would be that it throws away a weapon to use when Castro dies to try to influence the cgoice of successor. I'll bet most every power player on the island wants an end to troubles with the US.
     
  5. BA93

    BA93 1,000+ Posts


     
  6. viethorn

    viethorn 25+ Posts

    Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, and China are 4 remaining communist states in which communist parties monopolized powers.
    With respect to foreign policy, US treats Cuba as same as North Korea while enjoying full trade relationships with Vietnam and China.
    Cuba clearly doesn't have nuclear and missile program as North Korea. US lost thousands in wars with Vietnamese and Chinese, not Cuban.
    Someone just couldn't get over Bay of Pigs?
     
  7. 13evO

    13evO 500+ Posts


     
  8. HornsInTheHouse

    HornsInTheHouse 500+ Posts


     
  9. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  10. TahoeHorn

    TahoeHorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  11. Napoleon

    Napoleon 2,500+ Posts

    Plain & Simple-

    All those who support the embargo and oppose political relations are bitter losers.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  13. FondrenRoad

    FondrenRoad 1,000+ Posts


     
  14. Napoleon

    Napoleon 2,500+ Posts


     
  15. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  16. Lamp

    Lamp 250+ Posts


     
  17. ptownhorn

    ptownhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  18. Napoleon

    Napoleon 2,500+ Posts

    I'm still trying to figure out how giving a damn about human rights of another country's citizens comes into play when we conduct trade with them.

    List of Countries with horrible civil rights record:
    China, China, China (could be listed a thousand times due to population)
    Brazil
    Argentina
    Chile
    [basically insert Latin American country that had a US backed dictatorship in the last 40 years]
    Saudi Arabia
    Iraq (before WE turned on THEM)
    Iran
    Israel
    Afghanistan
    Russia
    Former USSR-stan (insert any that "help us")
    Pakistan
    [Insert SE Asian country name here]

    I just don't understand why we are pretending to still give a **** about human rights and democracy. Especially when many of the "democracies" that we've created in the last 8 years have proven to be even more hostile towards us than their previous dictators.

    Open up Cuba. If they continue to treat their citizens poorly... well that will suck for them.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  20. Burnt Orange Bevo

    Burnt Orange Bevo 1,000+ Posts

  21. Napoleon

    Napoleon 2,500+ Posts

    I just wanted to add another "Who gives a **** about human rights of our allies" article. Why this would even enter someone's thought process in this day and age, I have no idea.

     
  22. the Saint

    the Saint 500+ Posts

    The best damn thing we could do is rescind the embargo and turn the American people and the free enterprise system loose on them. Put a Starbucks on every corner and a McDonalds ever half-kilometer, or so. Give 'em a taste of Americana and the Castro brothers will be looking for asylum in Venezuela within two (2) years. [​IMG]
     
  23. ernieatut

    ernieatut 25+ Posts

    I would like to elaborate on what the esteemed General Bonaparte mentioned. Nobody has ever done anything out of a consideration for "democracy" or "freedom." There is ZERO concern for human rights on the part of our leaders, there is ONLY realpolitik. To restate more crudely: the United States couldn't give two shits about conditions in other countries. If we cared, we wouldn't trade with several of our major trading partners.

    I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it is a practical strategy in a world where the only idealists are suckers. We can't go around the world enforcing our version of what a political system should be. But let's do stop the pantomime and feigned concern that *gasp* Cuban leaders won't relinquish their control.

    There were valid strategic reasons for initiating the embargo in the first place; all of them had to do with the former Soviet Union, and none of them are valid today. The primary reason the embargo is still in place is that
    a) there is a large block of Cubans in Florida,
    b) Florida has for many years been a "swing" state, and
    c1) said Cubans tend to vote Republican; however
    c2) said Cubans supported former President Clinton, thus guaranteeing no action from WJC on the matter

    Anyone who believes otherwise is the worst kind of sucker. Now that Florida is relatively less important in the national scheme (i.e. Obama would have won the electoral college even without Florida) the Cubans are relatively less important (or due for some political punishment, take your pick) and we will start to see some action taken about this embargo. The sooner we all admit that, the sooner we can all drink mojitos on the beach in Varadero.
     
  24. Dude

    Dude 1,000+ Posts

    So when Americans start traveling there and we open up trade and spend US dollars there its all going to flow into the hands of the Cuban people?

    Or will the oppressive rulers take it all and use it to bolster their position as the one authority?
     
  25. Lone Star

    Lone Star 500+ Posts


     
  26. 13evO

    13evO 500+ Posts


     

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