UT President Fenves Sued

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Htown77, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts



    A University of Texas student claims in a lawsuit that UT President Gregory L. Fenves misapplied the school’s sexual assault policy and suspended him for five semesters even though his accuser agreed to have sex after a sorority formal in spring 2016.

    According to the lawsuit filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Austin, Fenves on April 12 overruled a university hearing officer who determined that there had been no assault. In a letter informing the student of his suspension, Fenves asserted that the woman was highly intoxicated and “someone who is intoxicated cannot give consent to sexual activity because they are incapacitated.”

    The lawsuit accuses Fenves of coming up with his own standard for incapacitation and ignoring the university’s standard, which defines it as “a state of being that prevents an individual from having the capacity to give consent” and “could result from the use of drugs or alcohol.”

    The lawsuit also alleges that Fenves stepped in because the female student is the daughter of a wealthy donor, whom the lawsuit did not identify.

    The lawsuit also says Fenves has a possible conflict of interest because the father of the woman is a university donor who gave a significant sum within a month of her allegations. And, while the school’s investigation was ongoing, the lawsuit says the university brought on the father to be an adviser at the school.

    "As the primary fund raiser for the University, President Fenves has a conflict of interest in deciding Title IX appeals generally, but especially when a donor's child is involved because of his potential bias towards donors and his role as a fundraiser," the lawsuit says. "The potential for abuse in this circumstance is significant, and the appearance of impropriety is striking."

    The Kroll Report showed that UT law was giving spots away to completely unqualified kids who had rich or politically connected parents who ended up not passing the bar or taking three tries to do so. Powers left, but his lackey Fenves replaced him. Now this slime ball is judge, jury and executioner to any kid who pisses off another kid with a rich parent. The corruption at UT has reached extraordinary levels and Fenves is at the heart of it. We all look at Baylor and Penn State and say "how did that happen?" I look at UT today and can tell you how. No on cares. Anytime the corrupt in charge are exposed, some rally around them because they think that protecting the knuckleheads in charge means they are protecting their university (see JoePa)... when really they are setting UT up for a bigger fall by prolonging the reign of corrupt knuckleheads.

    I will say that UT alumni are aware how horribly run UT is right now. They have stopped giving. UT has a hell of a time getting donations. Alumni ceasing to donate is something, but it is not enough if anyone wants to make positive change. UT alumni should organize through the Texas Exes and demand change. Until that is done, Fenves and the Powers ilk will continue to run UT and continue to demand donations from Alumni to raise money to defend themselves or pay settlements in lawsuits like this one.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    Tough situation but Fenves looks to have acted inappropriately. It's ironic that in this day of modern Feminism that women are still looked upon as children that are incapable of making their own decisions. If being drunk means that women lack the capacity to give consent then most men have committed multiple rapes in their lifetimes.

    Also, if the man is drunk too then why is he also not being raped?
    • Like Like x 5
  3. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The "University Justice System" is a separate issue that is playing out nationally right now. I do not think universities should be playing rape police. Let the real police handle it. If someone is convicted by a real court suspend them. If they are in jail and cannot make bail, then you do not have to worry about them on campus. If they are out of jail and awaiting trial, our society is supposed to use an "innocent until proven guilty" standard. If someone is not convicted by a real court, a kangeroo court should not hold its own separate trial with its own standards... especially when it can be easily bribed to reach its decisions or someone above it can be easily bribed to overturn his own kangeroo court.

    All that said, this is being organized against and fought legally on a national level. I think these kangeroo courts will get shut down or at least rolled back. This issue I am more concerned about is the corruption and poor leadership at UT that has continued from the Powers regime. We need to bring better leadership to our university before it becomes the center of a huge scandal (though this donation for suspension one is pretty bad).
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I can see how it happens. People think their schools are something that they aren't. People view them the way they view their favorite NFL team. They cheer them on and view them worthy of their loyalty and protection. I don't know why people are that friggin' dumb, but they are. In reality, public universities are government agencies. Cheering them on and protecting them is as stupid as cheering on the local DMV office. And private universities should be viewed as businesses from which you purchased a good or service. If you cheer them and protect their interests, it's like cheering on and protecting the local Walmart because they sold you a loaf of bread.

    People need to change that mindset entirely and view their universities for what they are - imperfect institutions run by very imperfect and sometimes incompetent people who are looking out for themselves. It's an entirely self-serving and unprincipled enterprise. Yes, they educated you, but once you paid the tuition bill, the transaction was completed. Now make them obey the laws and call them out when they're wrong (which is often).

    As for this sexual assault case, I think these ********* "tribunals" should be completely prohibited. If that means the Legislature removing their authority and funding to do this, then so be it. Sexual assault is a criminal matter and should be handled by the local police and local prosecutors. Until the accused is convicted by a court of law, it's none of their damn business, and that goes for any crime, not just sexual assault. We need to put these wannabe judges out of business.
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    And those overseeing and overturning a rare "not guilty" findings of the wannabe judges for the right amount of $$$$.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Of course, we know politics and political correctness drive these actions (unless there's money involved - then that prevails). To put an end to it, either the Legislature needs to intervene, or the Texas Supreme Court needs to recognize a cause of action of some kind related to them that puts enough university money at stake to make them give up. To do that, the Legislature would probably have to amend the Texas Tort Claims Act to allow for bigger damages. At the current caps, I don't think they'd care enough to change.
  7. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The Legislature needs to step in. That is the solution. The problem is the Kroll report showed key legislators accept favors in exchange for supporting UT's admins. Wallace Hall was not perfect but he tried to expose the problem or at least some of it. The paid off legislature worked against him. UT almuni rallied against open government and against regent administration in favor of Powers, etc screwing themselves. They ridiculously called Hall "an aggy working for Perry" even though he went to UT. Like you said, they viewed it as cheering on their university when they were really supporting closed government/no accountability for some public officials.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  8. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts


    The burnt orange in me wants to defend the University ... but HTown77 ... well, "all y'all" make compelling points.

    The University has a responsibility to be objective ... and to step out of the way if there are real criminal charges involved. Seems the "druthers" of the leftists which run UT/culture down there are gaining the upper hand. They're even making hay on lies about campus carry (incoming freshmen, when the law clearly states CHL, which clearly requires the "applicant" to be >/= 21 y/o.

    Nevermind the free speech issue.


    OTOH ... don't get drunk. Watch that you keep good company ... and go to bed at a decent time. This issue becomes moot.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. 4th_floor

    4th_floor 1,000+ Posts

    Be careful what you ask for. Government solutions are always flawed and usually result in circumstances worse than the original problem. Plus, it's not like there's any money influence or favoritism coming out of the legislature.
  10. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    The same comeuppance that has befell the MSM is coming to a university near you. They are just as haughty and unprincipled as the MSM. I hope this guy sticks it to UT good and hard. Y'all will remember (and if not I will remind you) back in the day I was a big Wallace Hall supporter and was shouted down b/c he was appointed by an aggie. I want all the dirt at UT to come out and be cleaned up, even if it means my university gets a Baylor-sized black eye out of it. If they settle the Bev Kearney case, then you know that day is farther off than I would prefer.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    very true ... problem is ... these institutions serve as the creature OF the Legislature, therefore they are the ultimate authority as the representative of the people.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Shaark92 beat me to it.

    Believe me, I am well aware our legislature has a plethora of problems on its own. UT is a state government entity and ultimately the legislature is responsible for it. Ideally the regents would clean it up. If the regents failed, the governor would appoint better regents confirmed by the senate. If that fails, the legislature as a whole can take whatever necessary action.

    I think the only way to make that happen is to get the Texas Exes organized as an advocate for the best interests of UT and not just as a shill for the administration like they are right now. The Exes can certainly advocate for UT when the admins are acting within the best interest of the University, but when they are not the Exes needs to organize with the almuni and Legislature to hold the UT admins accountable. That is the best way forward I can see but am open to better ideas.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Just an FYI:

    From: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bribery


    Corrupt solicitation, acceptance, or transfer of value in exchange for official action.


    Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty. This type of action results in matters that should be handled objectively being handled in a manner best suiting the private interests of the decision maker. Bribery constitutes a crime and both the offeror and the recipient can be criminally charged.

    Proof of bribery requires demonstrating a “quid pro quo” relationship in which the recipient directly alters behavior in exchange for the gift. Because the relationship does not occur directly enough, campaign donations from corporations or individuals to political candidates do not constitute bribery. Another element of proving bribery includes proving intent to influence the discharging of another’s official duties. Some statutes also require proof that both parties understand and agree to the arrangement. Attempts to bribe exist at common law and under the Model Penal Code, and often, the punishment for attempted bribery and completed bribery are identical. Solicitation of a bribe also constitutes a crime and is completed regardless of whether the solicitation results in the receipt of a valuable gift. Economists consider bribery to negatively impact economic growth because it encouraged rent seeking behavior. Rent seeking behavior refers to an individual’s or corporation’s attempt to illicitly influence the open market in order to provide that individual or corporation with a disproportionate amount of wealth. Such an environment results in a sub-optimal allocation of resources, which results in depressed economic growth.

    Violators may be prosecuted under federal statute 18 U.S.C. 201 - Bribery."
    • Like Like x 2
  14. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

    That is never the answer to anything.
  15. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Well... the choices are regents, governor or legislature.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    Viper musta heard about the creation of balance.

    Before the Creation, the Heavenly Host was assembled & prepared to sing praises to The Almighty. However, God was not before them ... so the Archangel Michael set out to locate The Master. After a time, he came across The Father. He was resting."Father," said Michael, "The Heavenly Host are prepared, sir.""Ah, Michael. Come here. I want to show you something. I've been creating."

    "Creating?" asked Michael, as he approached God and peered below."Yes, Michael," as Michael spied a little marble spinning & circling. "That little globe is a planet I've just created. I call it 'Earth.'""Earth?" Asked Michael. "Yes," replied God, "Earth. And Earth, Michael, is ALL about balance.""Balance?" Asked Michael. "yes, God replied. "You see, for example, in that continent there, called Europe, those living in the Northern Sector will have great wealth but difficult weather. On the other hand, the Southern Europeans won't have two pennies for rubbing together ... though their beaches are excellent.""Ah!" said Michael. Michael watched the little globe spin while The Father continued His description. Then, one part of Earth caught Michael's eye ... "... wait, what IS THAT RIGHT THERE? That enormous area with vast coastland, pineywoods, hill country, lakes, streams, and ...""Michael, you've discovered TEXAS.""TEXAS? what a rugged name!""Yes, Michael, you see TEXAS is the promised land. It has all of those things you've correctly identified, it has abundant natural resources, but it will also have a people greater than any the world will ever know. Folks who encounter a Texan will be blessed with the Texan's wit, wisdom, charm & charity.""So," said Michael, "the Texans will abide in a great land & themselves be a great people?""That's right, Michael.""Well," Michael says curiously, "What about balance?"With a wink, God replies, "Wait'll ya see the idiots I put in Austin to run the place."
    • Like Like x 4
  17. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Or the Texas Rangers.

    Not the baseball team.

    P.S., "one riot, one Ranger.", so..... a Texas Ranger.
  18. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts


    How dare you mention the unmentionable, abomination, the one problem at The University of Texas that is worse than all the others combined, including Powers and Patterson. Bring that puppy out into the light and there will be lots of vacant offices in Austin, and the heads of some present and former regents will roll.

    Take a look at Fenves' "best friend" and his closest confidant and it speaks volumes as to the new direction of our beloved university.

    Once again, please deliver our school from anyone that has walked across the Berzerkley campus much less studied and graduated from there. Look at the list - Berdahl, Powers, Fenves.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts


    Judge apparently skeptical at Fenves overruling decision after receiving money from the girl's father. It seems like something that possibly may not be on the up-and-up.
  20. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts



    Judge calls Fenves’ statement ‘absurd’ in UT sexual assault suspension

    U.S. Judge Sam Sparks declined to rule on the man’s motion for a temporary injunction Friday, saying he first wants to hear from UT President Gregory L. Fenves.

    Fenves did not appear at Friday’s hearing, just days after UT was served with the lawsuit that says the president should not have overruled a hearing examiner who found no sexual assault had taken place.

    Sparks said he’s busy but will find time to hear arguments before the start of the spring semester.

    The judge had some pointed words for Fenves, calling a paragraph from the president’s letter explaining his decision “absurd.” Fenves had written that “someone who is intoxicated cannot give consent to sexual activity because they are incapacitated.” UT’s lawyers admitted that portion of Fenves’ ruling was poorly worded, but said it did not reflect the basis of his decision.

    Sparks also questioned why Fenves overruled the hearing examiner.

    “It would appear the hearing is just a facade if the president makes the decision,” Sparks said.

    Fenves needs to be fired. Also, I agree with the UT lawyers that his words do not reflect the basis of his decision. The basis was $$$$$$.
  21. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Sparks is as liberal as they come. If he doesn't like Fenves, watch out.
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    No, he's not.
  23. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    My 2 cents worth of thought --

    I concede it's an interesting case IF some of these allegations are true, and provable.

    Suits against bureaucrats acting in their official capacity are usually suits against the sovereign (here, the school or the state). The ones that continue against the individual defendant are called Bivens cases (involving the intentional denial of a known Const right), and I dont think this is alleged here (or is it?). Nonetheless, the original caption of a case will stick, even if the proper defendant is nominally replaced. Plaintiffs lawyers know this but they do it anyway. Maybe because that's how they want it thought of in the minds of the media, the jury, the public and history itself if they hook a winner (the original caption will stick even through the appellate process although the order of the names might be reversed).

    One of the standard lines for attacking a bureaucrat's decision is "arbitrary and capricious." These are not often winning arguments -- how do you show someone acted capriciously absent a video or email where they admit- "I am doing this capriciously?" Also Courts will always seek defer to admin types (it's a tough job but someone has to do it + we cant substitute our judgement for theirs + we dont like it when someone does it to us! + we dont want to see thousands of these types of cases + the courts wont change the outcome of an election you dont like (lol) + many other reasons). But it's not impossible.

    Here, based on a cursory reading, my guess is this would survive a motion to dismiss (to be distinguished from a motion for SJ) because the allegations made, if true, in my opinion at least, do state a claim (against the proper defendant). I have little doubt the judge wants to dismiss it (no one in the state or federal court system wants to encourage suits against the UT system president). And, Austin being Austin, the judge probably knows Fenves. But we will see. Plus remember that denial of a motion to dismiss is interlocutory, not dispositive. It primarily only means discovery gets to proceed. Some of which might be interesting.

    -- "...The lawsuit accuses Fenves of coming up with his own standard..." = does seem kind of arbitrary. did he do this to or for anyone else? if not, why here? i had drunk sex in college -- was I raped too? most of you did as well- does this mean we are all both victims and rapists at the same time? if any of this is even partially the case, why intervene for this one victim but not anyone else?

    -- "... is the daughter of a wealthy donor ....... the father of the woman is a university donor who gave a significant sum within a month of her allegations ..." = some fun depos (leading to a quiet settlement?)

    -- "Public humiliation and punishment without a fair trial, done by insiders within the power structure, is a vestige of Middle Ages" - heh, good line for the media​
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  24. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    • Like Like x 1
  25. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    The University cannot afford to let Fenves be deposed much less testify, although that would be one of the greatest benefits to The University in its history. I cannot wait to learn who the "third party" is. Fenves' Rabbi? Maybe someone on university payroll that reports to him? One of his super secret committee members with no connection to the school other than drawing a fee for advising Fenves? You can be sure it will not be an arm's transaction with no connection to Fenves. A true review will come down on his dealings worse than anything this side of Dresden.

    Berdohl was awful. Powers was intolerable. Fenves is the worst of the three. Thank you, Berzerkley, for off loading your candy truck in Travis County.
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'm gonna be the turd in the punch bowl again.

    The big surprise isn't that these guys are sleazy but that a bunch of Right-leaning thinkers expect better from a government agency. For whatever reason, you all set aside your general distrust for government bureaucrats and cheer this agency on and donate money to it and therefore enable its sleaziness. I'll never understand it.

    I understand liberals who do it. They're more trusting of government in general, and the agency promotes their ideology. For a conservative, it makes no sense at all. You all just shut off your brains, sing The Eyes of Texas, do the "Hook 'em Horns" hand sign, sniff the jocks, and open your wallets.
  27. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    Just occurred to me I see Deez only here in the West mall.
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Remember how I got here. Back in 2006, TxStHorn (who leased office space from my old boss's law firm) invited me to join to argue medial liability "reform." I enjoyed the discussion so much that I stuck around. However, that's my only connection here. I didn't go to UT. I went to UTD and Baylor Law School and was never a Longhorns or college sports fan of any kind. I don't dislike the Longhorns. I'm just indifferent. (However, I do affirmatively dislike Aggies and Mobilehoma.)

    And I'm consistent. I'm not a Baylor fan or a UTD fan (to the extent that UTD has fans) either.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    well ... as the outfit's safety video USED to say ...

    (I'm) glad you're here. :)

    thanks for the recap. I don't know I ever knew that. I can't recall how I found Katie's original site ... tailgate reference I imagine ... just "stumbled" onto it. Glad to be here, too.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    LOL ... yes ... it's the height of dichotomy, isn't it?

    I won't speak for all my correct-thinking pigskin lovin brethren/sissies ... but I suppose it's because I knew UT Football LONG before I knew about government's ineptitude and compartmentalize it.
    • Like Like x 1

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