What if it was not the Russians?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Horn6721, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

     
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  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    First, be the example. Show the world that free people are prosperous. The US economic freedom index has been going down over the last 10 years. Get back to #1.

    Second, absolutely call out every bad thing our trade partners do publicly. Do it loud. Do it publicly. Do it at the UN. Do it in every international forum possible.

    Third, prosecute IP theft and anything else that is possible through inter-governmental bodies. It doesn't guarantee success but it can put consistent pressure on them. Including the EU.

    Fourth, educate. When you out perform the other countries for growth let them know why. China has a horrible stock market. Anybody with money in China does not invest in China. They know it is a bad investment. They buy real estate in the US.
     
  3. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Longest, are you agreeing with me? I think you are. Taxing French wine just keeps it out of the US and harms those who want French wine. Those who want really good wine won't buy American. They will buy Italian or Moldovan.
     
  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Honestly, plenty of American wines are good just like plenty of American beers are good. The problem is that the famous ones usually aren't. They are also often overpriced for what they are - like many French wines are. In fact, I don't notice price to be a major indicator of quality in wine. I've had relatively expensive wines that we're just OK and some fairly cheap wines that were very good.
     
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  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    "In fact, I don't notice price to be a major indicator of quality in wine" is so right.
    There was a place called Tony's Wine Warehouse in Dallas where I learned a lot about wine. One of his most often repeated lessons was exactly that. That price mean nothing. I bought a ton of wine for entertaining then and appreciated the advice toward lesser priced wines.
    Oddly enough I once had a conversation with Mackovic who primly told me if a bottle of wine was less than $100 it was not going to be very good.

    And to bring this back to Russia:smokin: I wonder if vodkas are similar OR if the Russians have tainted our perception of vodka.
     
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  6. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

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  7. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Husker,
    Your name will be, shall I say, tainted forever on West Mall for not believing Papadopoulos was set up.
     
  8. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    It was tainted long before this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 1,000+ Posts

    We've been trying that for as long as I've been an adult (a long time, sadly). It hasn't worked. Time for the stick. At least he is trying something different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Let the record show that mchammer has used the word "taint" in 44 different posts.
     
    • Hot Hot x 1
  11. horninchicago

    horninchicago 2,500+ Posts

    Must be a slow day in Germany.
     
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  12. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    1. The US's economic freedom ranking has been decreasing over the last 10-20 years. We are moving away from freedom. Concurrently, the US economy has been anemic.

    2. The US still has the world's largest economy and still has immigrants wanting to come here. So I think it's working, at least for us citizens. But the government needs to get out of the economy. Restricting trade makes everyone poorer.
     
  13. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Taint that a shame!
     
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  14. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Make that 45 posts.
     
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  15. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

  16. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

  17. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    The trial court judge in the defamation suit against NPR has allowed the case to move forward (by adopting the magistrate's denial of a motion to dismiss). Just getting to discovery is a big deal in these type of cases. It doesnt mean plaintiff will win (the odds are he wont) but nonetheless just being allowed to begin discovery is a tactical win. And, from our perspective, discovery is good as it may shed some light on what really happened here, no matter the outcome for the plaintiff.
    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txed.183024/gov.uscourts.txed.183024.65.0.pdf
     
  19. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    • Like Like x 1
  20. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Hope they ask Papadapoulos about his comments about Hillary's emails. He made no record of that until he was questioned by Mueller. He name Mifsud as a Russian agent, but Mueller interviewed Mifsud and didn't bring anything against him.
     
  21. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

  22. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    I try to keep my taint as undiscovered as possible, and frankly, I think most of my fellow humans would thank me for it.
     
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  23. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Don't tell that to mchammer. He might consider it a challenge. He's proving himself to be the ultimate taint-master.
     
  24. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

  25. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Uh-oh. I suggest the investigators wear hazmat suits to protect against the taint that is about to be unleashed:

    As the Trump DOJ attempts to sift through exactly what the Obama administration was pulling during the 2016 US election, Attorney General William Barr and his team of investigators are pursuing the following information, according to RealClear Investigations' Paul Sperry.

    [​IMG]

    • Agendas for former CIA chief John Brennan’s secret interagency task force meetings on alleged Trump-Russia collusion in the spring, summer and fall of 2016, which he sent in envelopes to FBI Director James Comey, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, and National Security Adviser Susan Rice.
    • A series of papers that task force, known as the “fusion cell,” drafted for the White House.
    • A classified August 2016 document Brennan hand-delivered in a sealed envelope to Obama containing information from someone Brennan described as "a critical informant close to Putin." The informant is believed to have beeen a Russian source recycled from a largely debunked dossier compiled by ex-British agent Christopher Steele for the Hillary Clinton campaign.
    • An email exchange from December 2016 between Brennan and Comey in which Brennan is said to have argued for using the Steele dossier in early drafts of the task force’s January 2017 intelligence assessment, which spread the narrative that Vladimir Putin personally ordered a hacking operation to harm Hillary Clinton’s election chances against Donald Trump.
    • All drafts of the Russia intelligence assessment, or ICA, along with classified footnotes revealing the sourcing behind it.
    • Confidential source reports, known as FD-1023s, summarizing briefings between FBI agents and the informants and assets they jointly handled with the CIA, including Christopher Steele, Felix Sater, Azra Turk, and ex-Cambridge professor Stefan Halper, who apparently lured Trump campaign advisers George Papadopoulos and Carter Page overseas, where he secretly tape-recorded them.
    • Transcripts of conversations Halper recorded prior to July 31, 2016, in which Papadopoulos allegedly "denies any illegal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia,” according to Florida Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz.
    • Copies of all FBI, CIA and State Department records related to Joseph Mifsud, the mysterious Maltese professor whose statements regarding Papadopoulos allegedly triggered the original Russia-collusion probe.
    • Diplomatic cables between Australia and the U.S. that mention former Australian diplomat Alexander Downer’s tip to the FBI that Papadopoulos allegedly bragged about Mifsud telling him the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton.
    • Queries former Obama National Security Adviser Susan Rice and U.N. Ambassador Samantha Power made to the NSA between January 2016 and January 2017 to unmask the identities of Trump figures caught up in upstream collections, or intercepts, of foreign nationals -- including logs that remain under lock and key at an Obama Foundation storage site outside Chicago.
    • An Obama "interagency memorandum of understanding" signed by the FBI and CIA enabling outside contractors — including possibly Clinton campaign contractor Fusion GPS — to gain “improper access” (per a court opinion) to raw FISA data from November 2015 to April 2016.
    • Classified notes from late spring 2016 of Comey briefing White House officials on “the [Carter] Page information.”
    • At least four previously undisclosed, sealed Comey memos memorializing his conversations with Trump that are said to document the investigative steps taken by the FBI, as well as the codename and true name of a “confidential human source” — and evidence obtained from this source, including the identification of at least one Trump target.
    • Allegedly rejected FISA applications for warrants to spy on Page filed in June and July of 2016.
    • FISA applications to monitor Papadopoulos, former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn, and former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort in 2016 -- in addition to all versions of the Page applications that were approved from October 2016 to June 2017, along with supporting materials.
    • All summaries of interviews the FBI conducted with Steele in 2016, known as FD-302s, as well as the unredacted 302 reports of the FBI's dozen interviews with Justice official Bruce Ohr, who provided back-channel briefings from Steele after the FBI terminated him in November 2016.
    • FBI 302 reports summarizing 2016 meetings with Russian oligarch (and FBI informant) Oleg Deripaska, who reportedly scoffed at the idea that Trump colluded with Moscow when agents visited him in New York.
    • FBI 302s of agents’ Feb. 10, 2017, interview with Mifsud during which the Mueller Report says Mifsud lied to agents.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  26. horninchicago

    horninchicago 2,500+ Posts

    Nothing will happen to any of those guys.
     
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  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    The best case scenario of these investigations is being able to indict a low level actor and sending them to jail. "Limited hang out" is the technical term for what will happen. It's like finding a sacrificial lamb, maybe even innocent, to punish for the crimes of those more powerful, and guilty.
     
  28. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Not what I would call “best case” but definitely most likely to occur.
     
  29. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Best case of what I am willing to expect.
     
  30. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

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