Who do you want?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by George Bailey, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

    ShAARK, I wasn't referring to just the players. The Strong had no management skills at all so the entirety of the football program sank further and further into the abyss. Yes, the lack of AD leadership didn't help, but the responsibility for managing the football program was Strong's as the Head Coach. The ability to run the football program and coach at the same time is what separates successful Power 5 HC's from all other HC's in all other classifications.

    Unlike Strong, Herman knows what to do for both the program and HC duties, but does not know how to do it. The facility improvements he designed are bringing Texas up to the top level of Power 5 facilities, but his football team is rudderless. They play hard, but you have to play hard and smart with the smart piece coming mainly from the coordinators. Bad coordinators bring bad results.
  2. MajesticII

    MajesticII 1,000+ Posts

    Do you remember the affection in which Herman talked about Orlando after year one or was it two......about how he went and got him from Utah State, etc.....No way in **** does Tom fire or demote him. He will use the injury excuse to the hilt and already has started talking about how much the offense was responsible for the losses. ( listen to his pressers lately ). He shields Beck with his game plan by committee narrative . One or two of the assistants might..might get a pink slip, but thats it...and that isn't going to be enough if scheme doesn't change on both sides of the ball...and we all know it won't change. That would be admitting he was wrong.
  3. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    I recognize I probably seem like a Strong apologist ... I'm actually a UT apologist and the way Strong was treated his first two years is what's embarrassing.

    when you don't get the coaches you wanted to pursue ... because you weren't allowed to even interview 'em ... your management style changes. has to.

    I think "managing the program" is quite the articulation away from what is on the field ... the players ... and who is behind them ... the coaches.

    So, perhaps Strong wasn't going to be the multi generational guy, but Texas hardly did its best to support its new HC and that's the part which sticks in my craw. Texas Football wasn't in shambles from a talent standpoint when Herman arrived. It wasn't in a lacking discipline situation either ...

    how soon we forget the number of players Strong dismissed for this reason ... incl starters. That was gonna take a full contract to rebuild. He wasn't afforded it. In fact, he was actively hamstrung in that effort.

    yup. seems like Herman in particular, and the staff overall have a challenge admitting error like that. Sure ... "shoulda zigged when I zagged" ... but not "my base defense isn't working" my running game being based on pass blocking isn't working.

    Haven't heard that.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. zuckercanyon

    zuckercanyon 1,000+ Posts

  5. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts


    I acknowledge that I thought hiring Strong was beyond stupid, and I told Billie Powers that when I chewed him out over botching the Luck/Saban deal while kissing Mack Brown's ***.

    That said, there were a large number of assistants that knew this was an *** show, and wouldn’t work for Strong. As I was told by one, “Sure having worked for The University of Texas will look good on my resume, until they realize it’s the worst teams since Ed Price”. Some of the assistants Strong wanted had more baggage than United could carry. I shall acknowledge that Strong was hampered by Patterson, who refused quality pay and benefits for his assistants.

    Now, for those clambering for coordinator change, such short memories. Remember when Mack Brown was backed into a corner and told Greg Davis goes or you go. Make a change of coordinator now. Brown did - he fired Bull Reece and kept Greg. I submit we are facing the same kind of arrogance again.

    Fire Herman? No, our last 6-7 years are way too unstable from BOR to coaches in multiple sports.

    Changes in the locker room and coaches responsibility? Abso-*******-lutely

    • Like Like x 1
  6. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    Perhaps ... and that's their call of course. Still have some semblance of freedom in this country ...

    But prohibiting Strong from pursuing the staff he wanted is what I'm addressing. Perhaps that was part of the resistance in those you reference?

    I acknowledge you are much closer to the actual situation than I'll ever be ... but that point makes the rest of the difficulties expected ... and as Texas ... that should be unacceptable. It was apparently so recognized, but Strong gets more than his due for no longer than he was the coach. Patterson was the big issue ... and perhaps even beyond that.

    I've heard it even went into the Regents ... where the aggy governor good hair had some influence. (and I generally liked Perry's politics ... just not his aggyness)
  7. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts


    Can you imagine if he'd let Davis go and kept Reese? Mack might still be our HC. IDK.

    I couldn't remember Reese's name ... but yes, GREAT point, Sabre.

    We are there again ... much sooner than we were with Mack.
  8. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts


    Regents were little Rickie’s primary way to weaken The University. Our Chairman was a Baylor grad, who gave his money to Baylor, and some ($50,000 I think) to Tech. Donations to The University? ZERO!

    Lots of Perry shenanigans, BUT don’t blame Rickie; he ain’t that smart. Someone else was pulling the strings - probably “goal post boy”.
    • Like Like x 1

    LHABSOB 250+ Posts

    Ok I have let it sink in- here are the facts-
    Since being hired in the almost 3 complete seasons- 1 coach has gone 24-17 with 7 wins over ranked opponents including a win over #7 Oklahoma, a 33-16 win over Missouri in the Texas Bowl and a 28-21 win over #6 Georgia in the Sugar Bowl
    The other coach has gone 17-18 with ZERO wins over ranked opponents with a 45-38 win over unranked Vandy in the Texas Bowl.

    I love what Rhule has done and that program was probably in a deeper trench than us when he came in but I'll take the coach we got- thank you.
  10. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    how many more decades before we decorate DKR with multiple and consecutive conference championships ... multiple meaning more than 2 --- 6 to 8


    Rhule's team has the proper vector ... not this inconsistent jekyl/hyde thing
  11. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I would ask what did each coach inherit? Seems to me that the "other" coach was handed a program in the abyss, a complete pariah, losing recruits (see Duvernay and Hudson) and forced to sell parents of new recruits on the apparent change in the program going forward all while the media is reporting how the school is lying and hiding behind a meeting without minutes being taken.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 1,000+ Posts

    I am 99.99999% sure TH isn't getting fired anytime soon. We need to turn our attention elsewhere. Coordinators, assistants, all fair game.

    If TH wants to keep his job and the respect of the fans he needs to make change. He has no excuses next year. With what we have coming back I expect nothing less than a Conference championship and a playoff birth.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    The question then is why did he whiff on these assistants which is the implication of turning our attention elsewhere. And who is calling the plays? Herman or Beck?
    • Like Like x 1
  14. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts


    A good example of a major university with a very high profile program turning around their football fortunes quickly is LSU. When Coach O got the Saints assistant to come and revise/revamp LSU's offense the college football world and the SEC west was turned on its head.

    Sure LSU has good players--and a great QB. We have good players, and we might have a great QB on our team--or coming in this recruiting cycle. But if we don't get help on the offensive coaching staff, then we may never know.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    I think we’re simply trying to run Ohio States offense but without the talent OR depth. This year unlike last year we had major depth issues. So until depth improves we’re running into brick walls. I agree a new OC and a more open attitude from TH would help. The plays we are calling would work if we physically dominated upfront. But we’re not this year. Thus the frustration from fans and some players. We just need adjustability. Not be soo rigid and ideological on offense.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    This subject has been hashed for a long while. I'd like to hear from some, whom do you want for OC and DC?
  17. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    I have no names.

    demonstrate mastery of the game by refusing to have As a base defense 8 of 11 5/plus yards off the ball.

    and stop using as a base offense scheme runner right and blockers left/sideways ball; rush and pass.

    the game is STILL about blocking and tackling.
  18. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    "Fundamentals" is in neither the binder nor the Mensa handbook on football
  19. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts



    LHABSOB 250+ Posts

    I'll bite while admitting I don't have any of the knowledge or skins that you have Sabre but would be interested if any of my candidates are of interest-

    OC- Sonny Cumbie (he turned us down once), Graham Harrell, Billy Napier, Todd Dodge (assume this will never happen and there must be history here that he never came here in the past; could you get Todd and Riley both),
    DC- Elko, Grantham, Rumph (had a 1 yr stint here), Jeremy Pruitt (looks like has turned the corner in Knoxville and will survive as HC)
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  21. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts


    Great take that had not occurred to me.

    I do think that ISU might have been a turning point for Herman. Again, based on what I saw in the presser Monday, his whole perspective could have changed. I actually think that he may have seen his coaching career pass before his eyes as a result of that game and the past few. No kidding.

    For whatever reason a Seinfeld episode anology comes to mind. (There is a Seinfeld analogy for virtually every situation in life.) The short story is that George comes to the realization that everything he has been doing in his life to date has been wrong. Therefore, if everything he has been doing has been wrong, the opposite would have to be right.

    Herman’s world has been shaken. It will be fascinating to see how he coaches, and what changes he makes this weekend.
    • Like Like x 2
  22. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    I would go wishbone, five wide, triple option from a motion split back first three/four plays.

    Seriously, though speed option plays would be a good idea. Mix in some reverses. Wildcat too. Tom will adapt, he just had to get ***** slapped first!
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  23. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    What about Morris was recently let go by Arkansas as head coach? Isn't he an offensive guru?
  24. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 1,000+ Posts

    DC I know that Ash the Ex Rutgers coach was a DC at Ohio State and was pretty good, I'm thinking he might be a very good replacement for Orlando. Here are the guys I'd make a run at.

    1. Jeff Hafley - Co-DC Ohio State
    2. Glenn Schumann - Co-DC Georgia
    3. Chris Ash - Former Rutgers head coach and former DC at Ohio State.

    Honestly, I think the smart move is to let Ash just have the job.

    I have no order here but here are a few names I pulled by looking up stats.

    Eric Bieniemy - OC Kansas City Chiefs
    Shane Waldron - Asst OC Passing game Coordinator - LA Rams
    Josh McDaniels - OC New England Patriots

    I think you see the trend. Or we can turn the offense over to David Beaty.
  25. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    @dukesteer ...

    Edit: Agreed, a clip from Seinfeld for almost every situation.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  26. p_town_horn

    p_town_horn 1,000+ Posts

    How many Sabans are out there. This sounds like a John Madden saying. “The team with the most points at the end of the game is going to win.” Anyone calling to fire Herman need to have another realistic name on the list. Saban, DKR, and Tom Landry are not available.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  27. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    Glad you posted it. One of my favorite scenes. But then again, I have about a hundred favorite scenes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. p_town_horn

    p_town_horn 1,000+ Posts

    Riley is only leaving OU for the NFL. How many New Years 6 bowls have Gundy and Patterson won? Maybe one each in over ten years. Herman won one his second.
    • Like Like x 2
  29. dukesteer

    dukesteer 2,500+ Posts

    I want John Harbaugh. Just a feeling that he could be the guy. (I know. He’ll probably win another Super Bowl in February...so forget about it...)

    But frankly, I’d love to see Herman grow in the job and become the coach we all hoped he would be.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  30. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts


    The only people that are available either aren't worth a damn or are dirty as hell.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1

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