Who will beat Hillary in 2020?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by texas_ex2000, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    That is if she doesn't lose to Kanye in the Democratic Primary.

    I want to see either a flag officer, my choice would be McRaven, or a diverse smart candidate. I think Nikki Haley needs to start prepping for the job. I like that she's conservative. I like that she's from the South. I like that she's a bipartisanly popular governor and leader of a state where race issues aren't twitter feed fodder but fundamental to what ties South Carolinians together. As a governor, South Carolina has thrived in brining in high-paying companies and manufacturing and its GDP growth has outpaced the national average.

    She's smart, telegenic, well spoken...the anti-Trump.
     
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  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 5,000+ Posts

    I can't fathom what the Republican party will look like after this election. Does anyone expect Donald Trump to go away? If he takes his base and walks will it matter who the Republicans put forward?

    Haley is too moderate to appeal to the Trumpsters. She seems like a viable candidate though. I want a viable 3rd party in the worst way but not one simply based on an egomaniac's charisma. Absent a 3rd party, we need 2 strong parties.
     
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  3. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    Trey Gowdy! At least he'd run circles around Hillary in a debate.
     
  4. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Trey Gowdy? Did you watch the same hearings I watched? I thought Hillary kicked the crap out of he and his tag team even partners with most of the guns pointed at her.
     
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  5. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    Of course you thought that Croc. :rolleyes1: That wasn't a debate (not even close.) That was her just trying to survive until her democrat colleagues come in next to praise her.
     
  6. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 5,000+ Posts

    What did Trey Gowdy accomplish other than spending millions of taxpayer dollars and helping HRC's campaign by giving her an 11 hour platform to present her herself in what was perceived a very good job in front of the committee?

    That's what is wrong with some in the R party. The "show" is more important than the substance. They laud people that lambaste D's without ever achieving anything of note. It's that thinking that resulted in the worst candidate in a generation leading the R ticket.

    I will give Gowdy credit for uncovering the email scandal.
     
  7. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    Federal prison?
     
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  8. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 5,000+ Posts

    Yes, they exist. What about them?
     
  9. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    GOP would be smart to get behind people like Cathy McMorris Rodgers. Intelligent person with bipartisan support. Doesn't kowtow to the lowest common denominator. From a blue state. Gave an articulate response to the SotU last January... thought she hit all of Obama's talking points without looking like an idiot or a bully.

    She's like the anti Sarah Palin or Mary Fallin. I'd vote for her. Only issue is that she seems to want to work behind the scenes getting the GOP elected to office, not going for the higher office herself.
     
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  10. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    I think Nikky Haley would make an excellent candidate, and I also think Cathy McMorris Rodgers would be appealing. However, I lean Haley, because she's a governor. Members of the House (even if in the leadership like Rodgers is) rarely win nominations. They just don't have the money and national profile.

    I'd like to see Kasich and Rubio back, but I doubt I will. Kasich's time has likely passed. (I could see him asked to become the Office of Management and Budget Director for the next GOP president, if we get another one in Kasich's lifetime.) I think Rubio knows he was over-matched, and I doubt he'll try to run again in the near future. The immigration issue probably ruined his chances of taking his game beyond Florida.

    I don't want to see the hacks who tried in 2016. I don't want Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry, Scott Walker, or Lindsey Graham. We need to move past narrow appeal candidates like them. They don't help anybody.

    I hope that after 12 years of defeat and humiliation, the GOP is willing to actually think about who can actually win a national election and stop toying with people who say goofy things and have no brains. If we can make that a serious priority, then I'll be optimistic. However, I fear that Seattle Husker is right. In the wake of the Trump train wreck, who knows what will be left of the GOP? It's one thing to lose, but he's also trying to destroy everything he can while on his way to defeat. It's going to be a rough few years.
     
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  11. UTChE96

    UTChE96 1,000+ Posts

    Why not Mike Pence? He should be able to win over the Trump supporters while appealing to the traditional base. He will be around 61 years old at that time so age may start to become a factor. I think he will be a contender assuming Trump doesn't sabotage the party which he very well may do.
     
  12. nashhorn

    nashhorn 1,000+ Posts

    I just hope they narrow to four viable candidates early, real early like Jan 2020.
     
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  13. Hollandtx

    Hollandtx 250+ Posts

    Do people really believe HRC will be physically able to run for another term?
    I'm not trying to be snarky, but the woman is barely holding up as it is, and we have all seen photo evidence of the toll of a Presidency.
    I don't see any possible way she is up for a second term.

    I am behind Nikky Haley as well. I thought she and Kasich would have made an excellent ticket this year. What could have been....
    Pence has too many anti-abortion statements and positions that could be used against him for a general election that would push Rs back in to an evangical corner, and for the party to survive, it must broaden it's appeal.
     
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  14. theiioftx

    theiioftx 2,500+ Posts

    Okay, maybe her health is more likely than federal prison. However, she is a lock 2 termer with her corruption and the media.
     
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  15. nashhorn

    nashhorn 1,000+ Posts

    Theo is right!
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    Re: Mike Pence. He's not a good choice for 2020. First, nobody is going to have more of the Trump-taint than he will. That all by itself should exclude him.

    Second, his governorship has been dominated by social issues that he has done a poor job framing and defending - Indiana's RFRA and some abortion restriction bills that are frankly weird and would never pass judicial review. (Frankly, the pro-life movement at the state level is really getting stupid, but that's another topic.) He has mostly gotten a pass on those issues in this campaign, because I don't think the media and the Clinton campaign want to the change the subject away from Trump's nuttiness. (Why change what's clearly working?) Furthermore, it would redirect emphasis to the VP nominees, and the last time that happened (the debate), Pence outperformed Kaine. Nevertheless, if Pence became the nominee in 2020, he'd have to answer for those social issues, and he didn't do a good job defending himself when they came up.

    Third, Pence will be 61 in 2020, and though he's not a bad looking guy, he looks old and will look even older in 2020. They need somebody a little more youthful. They shouldn't go find some millennial, but the next nominee should be a Gen-Xer, not a Baby Boomer. He or she should be born after 1965 and look like he or she was born in the '70s - like Nikki Haley or Marco Rubio.

    Fourth, Pence isn't a dumbass like Donald Trump or Sarah Palin, but he's not remarkably sharp either. The GOP needs to stop celebrating stupidity and start valuing intelligence, so it can communicate with and sell its ideas to educated voters. Our nominee should be well-educated but also well-read and able to discuss policy with nuance. That doesn't mean he should ramble and be aloof. People don't have time to listen to that, but he should be able to speak intelligently. Pence just isn't quite there.
     
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  17. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    The GOP has been the train wreck. Trump is the nominee because of the GOP establishment. This is not as difficult as trying to decide if the egg or the chicken came first. The GOP did this to themselves by not doing what the people sent them there for. Plus, they pushed for McCain and Romney. Obama was elected both times because we sent them these two candidates. There is no excuse for Romney losing. He couldn't beat Obama when Obama had nothing he could run on but failure.

    He's intentionally trying to destroy everything? Let's not talk crazy. I don't see it, but I think bashing Trump seems the be a popular thing to do.
     
  18. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 5,000+ Posts

    Could Rubio run again? Did anyone notice his recent statement on the Dem Wikileaks fiasco? He essentially stated that he wouldn't be leveraging anything in the release out of principal mentioning the influence of Russia. Rubio acknowledged that this is happening to the Dems today but tomorrow it could be the Republicans. That's a very mature stance for Rubio to take and denotes that he may still have national ambitions.
     
  19. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    She has hardly even got out on the campaign trail the last month. She's using debate prepping as her excuse. I think there is much more to the story than what we know.
     
  20. mchammer

    mchammer 2,500+ Posts

  21. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    35, Trump is the trainwreck. The GOP was handed this election on a platter. A non-mysogynist Trump wins this election. Cruz would have won this election. Kasich would have won this election. Rubio would have won this election.

    The GOP did not do this to themselves. Trump voters did this to themselves. They have this delusion that if you try to work with the other side, which is 50% of the other country, then you are a sell out...a "RINO." How appealing do you think a candidate born from that perpsective is to the genral electorate? Romney didn't lose because he was an "establishment" candidate. He lost because 2012 was a democrat cycle with a democrat incumbent. 2012 was the first true Millienial election, it was a longshot for any GOP candidate establishment or not. After 8 years, 2016 is supposed to be a change cycle. People are sick of the democrat administration. And Trump supporters wanted so much change, they lost their minds.

    And for the truly committed, the anti-establishment voters still had 3 infinitely more electable candidates in Fiorina, Carson, and Cruz - a guy who's entire career is built around burning down the capitol and pissing off every Senator in Washington. Instead the Trumpers voted for a pervert who sneaks into the Miss Teen USA dressing rooms and tweets people to check out sex tapes.

    You want to win those important suburban college educated women? Support Haley.

    Lesson learned - GOP will be fine in 2020 and Trump will fade into a sad irrelavance. Unlike Bernie, no one really admires him, what he stands for, his character, or his leadership. He was just a statement.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  22. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    Then why is Trump the nominee? He's there because the voters. Why did the voters feel the need to vote for him? The voters sent a loud message to Obama when they didn't like the direction we were going and won the house and senate to stop Obama. They get there and it's business as usual for Obama while they watched. This drove millions away from the party. I'm guessing we can get the Presidency back in 2020 only because Hillary will be exposed even more if that's possible. The problem is this isn't just a crappy 12 years of two very bad presidents. We will be affected by Hillary's choice of court justice for 30 years at a minimum and there is no telling what the laws of the US will be at that time. Really scary times though.
     
  23. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Ok...so the response was, vote for Trump? Ha. That's smart!

    You know what these Trump voters could have done? Voted for Cruz and won the election handily. He could have written your post from, "The voters sent a loud message."

    BTW, Hillary could still lose this. A massive new wikileaks corruption scandal or a grand mal seizure...or even a BREXITesque correction on election day, it could happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    No need to regurgitate tex2000's points, but two things are worth raising.

    McCain was crap, but what candidate do you think would have won in 2008? The financial crisis was setting in. We were in the middle of a very unpopular war, and capturing Bin Laden was no where in sight. The GOP was two years removed from losing control of Congress in a mess of sleazy ethics problems. Furthermore, the GOP was trying to hold the presidency for a third consecutive term, and the Democrats were unified behind a very dynamic candidate. You couldn't ask for a less winnable race for the GOP - probably the most unwinnable race for them since 1932.

    Crapping on Paul Ryan and those who don't want to associate with him for good reason helps nobody. He knows that. His attitude is that if he can't win, then he's going to bring down the people who didn't stand by him. Pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  25. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    Just insert any name that isn't someone in the establishment and it would hold true. There were millions looking for another direction to hold the establishment accountable. Trump just happened to be that guy out of 17 candidates. The problem is the Democrats never stop campaigning. They named our party the "Party of No" then the establishment gives in instead of naming the other party "The party of horrible ideas". Not specifically that name but something catchy with a small sentence phrase to fight back. The Dems gave them a bad reputation and the GOP caves. The GOP has to take control and fight fire with fire. We aren't the cool party because someone in the room has to be the responsible grown up. Just quit being pu$$ies and stop tolerating the Bull S#@t!!! So for the next four years we have to fight harder against the Democrats that the establishment fought against Trump in the general election. Of course if we have a Brexit then everything is good and let's all work together to get America back on track. Hoping we keep the congress though. That might not happen and again it would be their own fault.
     
  26. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    The people of the party voted for Trump for a new direction. It should be Ryan and the others that should be supporting Trump. Ryan has crapped on our candidate twice now. I do think Trump is handling it wrong by attacking him back. But these guys are in an elite group and they are afraid to give up their power with the direction the voters want us to go. When did it get to the point that Ryan and his establishment group wants to void the voters that have spoken? Again I was all for Rubio. But I was afraid Trump would win our state and I didn't want that and knew Cruz could take it so I voted for Cruz. But unlike you and the establishment I respect the decision of our voters.
     
  27. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    No. That's the worse idea ever.

    Republicans get a bad rap for being racist, homophobic, religious gun nuts. The first two are incorrect. And there's nothing wrong with being religious and/or a gun enthusiast. I don't think it's a coincidence that kindest, friendliest, hardest working, conscientious, open minded, compassionate, generous, moral, and patriotic people I know are republicans. I don't even think it's close. I have a lot democrat friends. They are superb. They're very smart, but I've noticed they are a little more self-involved, a little more sheltered in their upbringing and social circles, significantly more judgmental, more standoffish, fickle, and morally relative.

    All the GOP has to do, is put the best face forward representative of who conservatives really are. Not the cartoonish political satirical characters that the media churns in it's kitchen aid. Obama, is a perfect representative of what liberals want, how they think, and their morals. He's a great salesperson for their agenda because he's young and relatable to the electorate.

    Trump is none of that obviously. Cruz, while I respect his principles and intelligence, is also not relatable to the electorate due to his personality. Here's an observation, intellectual ideologues aren't relatable as candidates because most voters aren't intellectual ideologues. That's not to say you can't have a true conservative or true liberal as a candidate, but they can't talk like an ideologue. It's a social media world. You need a candidate that's social media proof.

    That's why I think a Haley, a more accomplished Rubio (being a senator hurts him greatly though), or a general/admiral who has had experience leading men and women of all kinds of backgrounds can excel in 2020. It has to be someone that represents the positives of conservative ideas to a whole range of people. Not someone who insults a who swatch of Americans.

    Trump has bragged that he sexually assaults women. He has tweeted to people to check out a sex tape. I think twitter conversations about sex tapes removes his obligation to support Trump. Don't you agree?

    Ryan isn't disagreeing with Trump's policies. It's Trump's fitness for office that's in question. And of course, Trump isn't even talking about policies. I doubt Trump would have won the nomination had these come to light in the primaries.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  28. I35

    I35 2,500+ Posts

    No I must've meant fire with fire in a different way. Wrong phrase. But they got to fight back with everything they have when we are called racist and Homophobes. It's like we are trying to not stoop down to their level and not respond. Then it just goes without saying that we are racist and homophobic. But there is no fight in our party and I believe that is what attracted many to Trump. Our party has fought harder vs Trump than they do the Dems.
     
  29. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    The "Republicans get a bad rap" was a wasn't a retort to fire with fire. It was a prologue to my thesis "All the GOP has to do, is put the best face forward representative of who conservatives really are." Sorry about the confusion.

    I agree with this 110%. You would know that by now after all my posts. The GOP definitely needs a fighter. Someone proud of their principles. It goes without saying that we are proud of these principles because they are universal and applicable for everyone. That fighter needs to be able to communicate that. A conservative leader must also be a woman or man of character/honor/and their principles...otherwise they are a fake.

    Trump couldn't do that because 1) he got sidetracked into these misogyny discussions and 2) he didn't do a good enough job communicating the virtues of his plans and philosophy. "We will build this wall...BELIEVE ME." In the end, people don't care if you build the wall or don't build the wall. Those who's jobs have been directly affected by illegal immigration will obviously vote one way. A good communicator will explain the virtues of sovereignty, of the law, of how the law should be applied equally to everyone, on the virtues of the legal immigration system for generations of Americans that is now hazarded by illegal immigration, etc. Trump never did this.
     
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  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 5,000+ Posts

    Ryan did support Trump, but nobody's support is absolute. Trump is a sharp break from Ryan and traditional conservatism on several very big policy fronts - trade (where he's relatively protectionist), entitlement spending (where he's liberal), and foreign policy (where he's incoherent). Despite reservations, Ryan went along. In fact, he still formally supports Trump. However, I think it's pretty understandable that he's not going to go publicly hang around with and closely associate with a dude who brags about being allowed to sexually assault people.
    I don't disagree that Ryan is afraid to give up his power. Where you go wrong is that you think he's afraid to give up his power to Trump and his supporters. That's not what Ryan fears. Trump already tacitly backed Ryan's primary opponent (who was basically Trump without the fame and money), and Ryan humiliated him. What Ryan fears is giving up his power to Nancy Pelosi, and considering that Trump is doing more to make that happen, I'm surprised that you think Ryan is unreasonable not to want to help him do that.
    Did you respect the decision of the voters to elect Barack Obama? I don't see much evidence of that.
    Personally, I don't give unqualified respect to anybody's decision. I align with the Republican Party, because I mostly agree with its principles. However, if its voters reject the the principles that caused me to align with the party, there's no reason for me to have any special loyalty for those voters and their choice.
     

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