Why winning in Afghanistan is impossible

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by dheiman, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. dheiman

    dheiman 1,000+ Posts

    I don't want to argue the merits of the original involvement in Afghanistan except to say that most of us will agree that the cowardly terrorist attack of 9/11 was the spark. It would seem then that the strategy was to wipe out the terrorist threat and attempt to build a foundation on which Afghanistan could develop a peaceful country for its population.

    Two problems:
    1) No one can read

    2) No one understands why we're there

    The problem is that I had no idea how uneducated the majority of Afghans are and how dire the situation was over seas. How can we think that there is a permanent solution in Afghanistan if most people cannot read and as many as 92% don't even know about 9/11. It's no wonder they hate us if they truly think we just invaded with no justification. How would they know any better? The entire county is made of ignoramuses about 1,000 years behind the rest of the world.
     
  2. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    So many elements maek Afghistan impossible to change.
    We could take out the Talivan but to do it we would have to kill many so called civilians( some will be truly innocent, others not)
    and not only are we unwilling to do that( I am not arguing for that btw) but we won't even allow our troops to shoot unless they can see the weapon.

    I want us and all civlized NATO members to just leave. Yes the Taliban will be back in control and yes terrorists will train there. yes women will be surpressed and homosexuals beheaded.
    but we could use our military here instead.


    Those hwho ignore history are doomed to repeat it. if what we are doing in Afghanistan isn't a classic example of that nothing is
     
  3. Knoxville-Horn

    Knoxville-Horn 1,000+ Posts

    Interesting take.

    I do seem to recall that the Iraq policy was going to be easy because the country had such a high literacy rate. The problem is that there will always be people both internal and external that will want to cause problems, blow themselves up in the name of Allah and undermine any pro-Western civilization. And that applies to both countries.

    I'm not sure what the long-term plan is but I'm pretty sure I'm tired of seeing our people die over there for a culture that hasn't evolved in over a thousand years.
     
  4. HornsForever'93

    HornsForever'93 1,000+ Posts

    Alexander the Great is waiting to hear how it is possible to win in that hell hole
     
  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    93
    how silly
    did Alexander use the same rules of engagment we have? Was he concerned with the hearts and minds of the afghans?

    Did the afghans have supporting countries funneling in weapons and men?

    sometimes you need to stop and think before you post [​IMG]
     
  6. ShinerTX

    ShinerTX 1,000+ Posts

    It is time to redeploy to the Mexican border.
     
  7. HornsForever'93

    HornsForever'93 1,000+ Posts

    6721 eat it.
     
  8. DFWAg

    DFWAg 1,000+ Posts

    The flaw in your argument is that a nation of illiterates that have not read history have to be terrorist havens. There are examples to the contrary.

    Many sub-Sharan African nations have lower lates or literacy than Afghanistan. These countries do not choose to partner with global terror groups that are actively waging war against developed countries.

    They are violent places for sure . . . . .their governments just choose to kill each other rather than Brits, Spanish, Americans, etc.
     
  9. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Shiner
    that makes sense as we know the drug cartel would take help islamists across
    and we know even if we leave afghanistan they will want to come after us.
    terrorist by terrorist.



    93
    How very civil mature and erudite of you. Following form I see
    I hope that was sarcastic and not an invitation baaed on your sexual preference.
    not that there is anything wrong with that. [​IMG]
     
  10. DFWAg

    DFWAg 1,000+ Posts

    But I agree, it sure does not help our cause that most of these people are stone-cold ignorant. I also agree that it is not feasible to keep the military presence we have in country just to keep our boot on the throat of the Taliban. We just don't have the coin for that anymore.
     
  11. UT1986

    UT1986 500+ Posts

    This is what Ron Paul has been advocating for over 10 years! Why continue to invade/support wars and attempt to "democratize" foreign lands with no chance of "victory", while we have plenty of problems on the home front.

    The US Border patrol needs a helluva lot of help. Instead of having troops sitting around deployed in countries not currently engaged in active warfare, have them come home and defend our borders. We'll certainly get more bang for the buck.
     
  12. Satchel

    Satchel 2,500+ Posts

    UBL knew it was impossible to win there and told us so. His wish to see us bankrupt ourselves fighting an a war that history says is unwinnable, has come to pass.
     
  13. Roger35

    Roger35 2,500+ Posts


     
  14. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    I think you've all highlighted the issue. What does winning AFG mean?

    1. Defeating/eliminating AQ globally
    2. Defeating/eliminating AQ in AFG
    3. Defeating/elilminating TB in AFG
    4. Making AFG safe/secure
    5. Establishing a functioning GIROA

    There are many definitions for "winning in AFG".
    Certainly the cost is a problem for us.
    security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/28/one-soldier-one-year-850000-and-rising/?hpt=hp_t3

    However, we can certainly do two things.
    1. Eliminate AQ in AFG
    2. Keep the TB from winning, if their definition of winning is forcing their version of an Islamic Emirate on AFG.

    Insurgeny is simple. I use an analogy of a car to describe it. If I asked you to come up with as many ways to disable a car as possible that took less than 60 seconds to complete. I bet you could list at least 2 dozen. If I asked you to determine how much money and time it would take to fix each one of those items, they would all be substantially higher cost and time to repair. For instance, you could puncture the tire. Takes a knife and 3 seconds to break the car. It takes $50 dollar tire, a jack, a relatively strong person and 30 minutes to fix what took 3 seconds to break. That is insurgency and COIN in a nutshell. It is easy to break something, but very very hard and expensive to fix it and keep it running.

    If we put ourselves in the position of being the breakers instead of the fixers. Ie, we use SOF to target leaders of TB/AQ and break their machine, then we are using guerrilla tactics against their machine.
    If however, we insist on being the builders of AFG, then we will always have to fight that uphill battle of protecting everything, all the time. A virtually impossible task. Particularly when all the TB have to do is skirt back across the border to avoid capture.

    So, can we eliminate AQ in AFG? YES
    Can we eliminate TB? NO
    Can we make TB come to the table and soften thier approach to an Islamic government and forsake AQ alliance? YES
    Can GIROA become a stable, secure, self-supporting entity? I don't know.
     
  15. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    Weve been there 10 years, and we are 14 trillion in debt. So, how long before we accomplish those goals, and at what expense? Is the fall of America worth trying to impose our version of morality on people who live in the desert halfway around the world?

    If you say yes, you should be sent to the moon.
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  17. DFWAg

    DFWAg 1,000+ Posts


     
  18. Uninformed

    Uninformed 5,000+ Posts


     
  19. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    Leaving now would be like admitting we lost and we can't do that. It is unAmerican. And politically problematic.

    Beating the talis is going to be small potatoes compared to getting the debt ceiling raised again before the election.

    We have bigger problems ahead than fighting these guys.
     

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