Zimmerman Trial

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Crockett, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Don West, defense attorney, summed it up nicely. "
    “The young man lost his life. Another is fighting for his," West said. "The evidence will show that this is a sad case. There are no monsters here.”

    Zimmerman was an overzealous slow learner who got in over his head
    The overarching message, the one taught first and foremost to neighborhoood watch volunteers; "be the eyes and ears of police. Do not confront suspects."

    I don't think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder, but he has paid and will pay a terrible price for poor judgement. Police know how to handle and de-escalate confrontations. Zimmerman, obviously, lacked those skills.

    Martin was a boy who would be justifiably fearful and angry at being followed. Had he killed Zimmerman, I think he would have been acquitted on self-defense grounds.
     
  2. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    So you know that Zimmerman confronted Martin? I think it was the other way around........

    I am understanding that Martin circled back and confronted Zimmerman for following him..........maybe I have misunderstood something.......
     
  3. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    I do not know what will happen or even what I want to happen. I do not, however, think that Zimmerman is any sort of a victim here.

    He made lousy decisions to escalate this incident both by confronting Martin and by carrying a firearm. He then made a life-changing decision to shoot Martin. He killed another human being. The victim in this matter is Martin. This cannot be fixed.

    His defense in this case is self-defense. He admits to killing Martin. I do not know how this will play out at trial. If Florida criminal law is similar to Texas, Zimmerman will have the burden of persuading a jury by a preponderance of the evidence (not beyond a reasonable doubt) that he had a legitimate fear for his safety.

    He will almost certainly have to testify and his demeanor and credibility will be the key to what the jury decides. I can see it going either way. It is a shame that he got out of his car.
     
  4. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    My only question regarding this case is why does everybody feel any need to gossip about it at all? And make no mistake, that is all anybody is doing, just idly gossiping about something that happened a good thousand miles away from Austin. It is none of our business.

    I turn off any channel whenever this story comes on the air (did the same for the OJ mess), and I fail to understand why there is such fascination for this or any other trial that the media latches onto. Bread and circuses, indeed. Is this the type of circus society prefers so we don't have to think about the real issues facing our country?
     
  5. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Zimmerman, in a vehicle, followed Martin. When Martin left the roadway, Zimmerman, armed with a lethal weapon, exited his vehicle and followed. I don't know if you call this a "confrontation" Major, but it clearly exceeded the bounds given to neighborhood watch volunteers and directly countermanded the orders of a 911 operator, paid and trained by the police department.

    As far as who confronted whom, I think what we will hear is what Stephen Colbert described as a case of "He said: He's dead."
     
  6. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    in reply to

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________
    My only question regarding this case is why does everybody feel any need to gossip about it at all?
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Somebody was killed and the killer felt empowered by Florida's Stand Your Ground Law, a legitimate topic of public concern.

    Certainly there are countries where there are "secret" trials and proceedings. In my estimation, in those a places prosecution of criminal justice and the rights of defendenants are inferior to our own. I think our founders knew what they were doing when they established the precedent of public trials.
     
  7. Roger

    Roger 1,000+ Posts

    It keeps getting repeated as if fact that Zimmerman chased down Martin once he left his vehicle...when I thought the transcripts of the 911 call have Zimmerman saying he lost site of Martin and was waiting by the vehicle for the police to arrive. This is partially why it will be hard to get a conviction because the "facts" that are out have not and most likely will not be provable. Thus whom confronted whom is not known as a fact and likely won't be.
     
  8. Third Coast

    Third Coast 10,000+ Posts

    Based upon the evidence, I just don't see the jury arriving at a unanimous guilty verdict. After all is said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a hung jury.
     
  9. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    I guess I did not make it clear. I am relatively certain that Zimmerman is admitting that he killed Martin. Zimmerman is relying on an affirmative defense of self-defense. It is Zimmerman's burden to prove this. If he doesn't, he gets convicted.

    I don't know what the jury will do, but Zimmerman is in a very dangerous position. This is an instance where a "tie" or "uncertainty" over what really happened results in a conviction. The burden is actually on Zimmerman to prove self-defense not on the State to prove it wasn't self-defense.

    In looking at Florida law in a quick google search, the burden appears to be a bit odd in that it shifts back and forth depending on the evidence. I am not familiar with this (or even sure if this is accurate) aspect of Florida criminal law. If true, Zimmerman may have an easier time being acquitted although he will almost certainly have to testify.
     
  10. Roger

    Roger 1,000+ Posts

    Paso, I don't know about the burder of proof on the defendant I do know that to convict of second degree murder the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an"unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual."

    Therefore they have to prove that George Z. had a disregard for human life. I'm going to say that from what I've read and heard that is going to be a tall hurdle to get over. Now if they can or are able to lessen the charges to manslaughter probably a different story.
     
  11. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Again, I don't know for sure but here is how I have read and understood the police report......

    Zimmerman noticed Martin on the grounds of the vehicle called 911 and was following Martin, was instructed to stop following him, then lost him at that point and was headed back to his truck when Martin confronted Zimmerman asking him why he was following him......Martin circled back looking for Zimmerman.......hence, it was Martin confronting Zimmerman.

    I will follow any suspicious person in my neighborhood and ask what they are doing or call 911, I think Zimmerman was doing what everyone in the neighborhood would have wanted. If you don't want to be looked at suspicously is maybe you don't dress suspiciously in a neighborhood that has seen a large change in socio economic change the past 5-6 years.

    I am following this at the disbelief of how powerful the African American Community and Liberal media is and the assumptions they made and have been wrong at every turn. Not to mention when the pictures and ethnic background of George Zimmerman when everyone learned what it is.......the hypocriscy of Martin's parents and you can just see them looking forward to the Civil Suit and a way to make money off of the death of their child.......it is beyond disbelief.......
     
  12. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Major, I read the story pretty much like you do, except I think it pretty important that the police dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin in his vehicle and not to get out of his vehicle to follow.

    Obviously the only person involved in this encounter still breathing and talking has told his side of ths story which, conveniently enough, has him stop his agressive pursuit and turning innocently to return to his vehicle.
     
  13. mojo17

    mojo17 1,000+ Posts

    Zimmerman's lawyer is an idiot and is going to get him convicted. The one that told the stupid knock knock joke. The guy is totally incompetent
     
  14. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    I think when the defendant puts the timeline and map together along with the bloody photo's and police interviews of Zimmerman and the consistency of his story will fall his direction.

    I am just tired of all the racist and everyone is against the African American community, well don't dress like someone who breaks into houses and you won't be followed, especially in a community that is under going tremendous change to a lower socio economic situation....Maybe try to clean up your community and don't dress like hood rats and you won't be treated like one?
     
  15. dalhorn1

    dalhorn1 1,000+ Posts

    If this jury finds Zimmerman guilty after hearing the prosecution's star witness "Diamond" bumble and smart-*** her way through testimony, we're ALL in big trouble.

    The bell curve on intelligence cannot possibly include her. Is Zimmerman or the Florida Education system on trial?

    GOOD
    GRIEF
    [​IMG]
     
  16. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts


     
  17. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    I go to Tea Party meetings so I am already a racist. What can I say I hate all white people, black people, yellow pepple, brown people, red people, what color am I missing? I hate them all and I don't hire any of them based on what they can do just what color skin they have!!!
     
  18. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I know that in my neighborhood, a kid like Martin would look out of place and raise suspicion. Ditto for a guy who looks like Zimmerman with the closely cropped hair, earring and bulging muscles from his early mug shots. Now, the pudgy, suit-wearing, Zimmerman from the trial would fit in OK, maybe, if he were introducing himself as a financial planner or passing out tracts for the Jehova's Witnesses.
     
  19. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    No doubt a sad case. I am fortunate to live in a small, gated community of homes. Based upon my homeowner by-laws, he was trespassing because he did not live there. Based on the circumstances, he would have been questioned in my neighborhood as well. That does not mean he deserved to be shot. However, it does seem Zimmerman had a right to ask and Trayvon should have simply answered that his father's fiancée lived there.

    What actually happened is what the jury is for, not the media or public to pre-judge.
     
  20. NEWDOC2002

    NEWDOC2002 1,000+ Posts


     
  21. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Newdoc; Personally -- I predict an acquittal (have on this thread and others) because of reasonable doubt. I think even with an aquittal, the justice that will be exacted on Zimmerman will exceed that of many people who have acted on much more evil intent.

    Zimmerman is culpable of bad judgment, violating police orders and neighborhood watch instructions. I believe him when he says he felt his life was in danger. I think Martin was, justifiably it turns out, fearful and angry. As I said in the thread starter, I see this as a sad situation. I don't believe allegations that it was caused by murderous intent on Zimmerman's part. Had the victim been more compliant or chose to avoid confrontation by hiding, I believe he would have lived. I think Martin was from a culture where in a fight or flight situation, the right and manly thing to do was to fight. I don't ike it, but I understand it and frankly that's pretty much the culture I grew up in as well. i tend to trust and obey cops. Civilians who enter my space and pose a threat ... I'm more tempted to bow up and strike back.

    Taking arms to protect the peace worked out great for Hoss Cartwright and Lucas McCain once a week throughout my childhood. In the real world, civilians playing cops can end badly. Maybe having folks understand that will wring some social benefit from this two-family tragedy.
     
  22. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    probably a fair take and not an unreasonable outcome

    I think a lot rides on Zimmerman's testimony so I will wait and see

    2nd degree murder is overcharging imo
     
  23. bedhead

    bedhead 100+ Posts

    If you think Zimmerman will testify, let alone be allowed within 10 feet of the witness stand, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
     
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  25. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    If my quick google search was accurate, Florida criminal law has a very odd self-defense burden of proof and it is possible that Zimmerman can invoke the benefits of self-defense without testifying. This is very alien to me and was certainly not what I was taught about Texas law. In Texas, the defendant better testify or have some eye witnesses if he has any shot at self-defense. I am not positive that this is the case in Florida although it does seem like the better practice (even though it is risky as hell).
     
  26. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts

    Evidently Rachel Jeantel writes cursive but doesn't read it.
     
  27. DFWAg

    DFWAg 1,000+ Posts

    So out of some morbid curiosity, I went to see if the Rachel Jeantel testimony was as awful as everyone has been saying. It indeed was that bad and then some.

    She admits to lying under oath in earlier depositions. She can't read a letter she claimed to author. She has been combative with attorneys.

    This is something.


     
  28. DFWAg

    DFWAg 1,000+ Posts

    And she apparently was forced to scrub her twitter account as well when the prosecutors found out she had been blabbing for months.
     
  29. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Watching her try to read was painful. Amazed the education system promotes kids through who cannot read.
     
  30. gecko

    gecko 2,500+ Posts

    her testimony probably seems credible to 47% of the population
     

Share This Page