Conference champ game arugement

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Das Mook, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. Das Mook

    Das Mook 250+ Posts

    A lot are arguing that the Big 12 doesn't have a champ game and will hurt TCU and Baylor (this year). I will argue that the champ game helped Oregon and Ohio State this year.

    The conference champ game essentially allows a Mulligan for these conferences. Oregon got to play a team that already beat them. Bama wasn't punished for a regular season loss. Ohio State got an extra game.

    Other than the Pac 12, no other conferences play 9 conference games. And in the Big 12, 7 teams played 5 away (road / neutral site games) from home. TX and OU will always play 4 homes games, 4 road games and 1 neutral site game. Tech and Baylor did this year as well.

    In the SEC, Big 10 and ACC, only 2 play that many conference games away from home.

    The conference champ games helps these conferences. It gives them a Mulligan.

    And I will also argue that if you change the resumes for TCU and Baylor to Texas and OU, no way Texas and / or OU get left out of the playoffs...
     
  2. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Funny how when the Big 10 didn't have a conference championship it never hurt their chances in getting into the two team format vs the now 4 team.
     
  3. l00p

    l00p 10,000+ Posts

    Same with PAC 10. Wasn't the Big 10 really the Big Televen?
     
  4. Dirty Martin

    Dirty Martin 500+ Posts

    Flip side is that a conferences best team might lose a championship game. Remember UT v. Colorado after we had crushed them in the regular season?
     
  5. l00p

    l00p 10,000+ Posts

    Thanks, mean guy. I thought I had forgotten all about it. One of the worst and gut-wrenching things to witness in person.
     
  6. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Due to being preseason favorites and the bigger-name programs right now and looking better late than they did early, Alabama & Oregon had 0 chance to drop out even if they had been idle today.


     
  7. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Also, the co-champs thing is a red herring. No sane voter would call it differently if the conference says "You are tied and thus co-champs but head-to-head gets the autoberth in the BCS bowls" vs "You are tied but head-to-head gets the autoberth in the BCS bowls and is champion". Of course the "sane" qualification does make this different.

    Until now the "co-" label has never meant jack. We don't tout our 2002 division co-championship as meaning anything. Heck, in 2012 KSU and OU were both 8-1, KSU beat OU, and everybody including most Sooner fans considered KSU the Big 12 champions. Suddenly now it's a big deal because people want excuses, or want to have the label matter more than the results, which don't change regardless of the label. It would be like watching the 2005 season, getting asked if Bush or Young was the better player, and saying "I'll wait to see which guy the Heisman decides on and then go with that guy as my pick".
     
  8. SHS1984

    SHS1984 250+ Posts

    The Big 12 has now become a joke. Not because the teams are not good, but because it has been out classed by the other conferences. While the others have been expanding and adding big name schools, the Big 12 has made itself into a conference that schools want to leave and does not appear to want to do something about it. We would all be much better if Dodds had retired about 10 years ago.
     
  9. accuratehorn

    accuratehorn 10,000+ Posts

    Totally incorrect, SHS1984. The Big 12 is in excellent financial shape, and no one wants to leave it. The 10 team set-up is ideal, since all teams play each other, which is what should happen in a conference.
    I hate those conference championship games, and they can eliminate the best conference team from national championship consideration, although that is not how it worked out this year.
    It may be a disadvantage this year, although I suspect the two top Big 12's names being TCU and Baylor may be a bigger disadvantage.
     
  10. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Solution? 8 team playoff. Some will argue that it's bad if 2 loss teams would make the playoffs. I don't think so. I'd put Miss St up against FSU right now and I'd put my money on Miss St. Plus this years situation I'd rather put in two 2 loss teams to get all three Ohio St, TCU and Baylor in.
     
  11. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Something overlooked here. SMU won its final game. Doesn't that put some sheen on the heretofore ridiculed Baylor OOC. [​IMG]
     
  12. Olehornfan

    Olehornfan 2,500+ Posts

    Ohio State got in by winning a conference championship.

    Big 12 will have to give this a thought. The same thing will happen again and agin under similar circumstances.
    Maybe it will put pressure on Notre Dame also.
     
  13. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I keep hearing this "well the Big XII should just have a championship." The Big XII is not ALLOWED to have a conference championship because the NCAA says they don't have enough teams. Until they add two more programs, this is simply not an option.

    So now you're in the position that somehow if we just go add North Texas and Houston (for example)... well now we have a championship game so you get more consideration? I think that's ridiculous. The issue is that a championship game allows you to ensure (usually) that a high-profile game between two top teams is fresh on the committee's minds at the end of the season.

    The bottom line is the whole way that conference and nonconference games are set up is idiotic for the purposes of how the schedules are used. Take Ohio State and Wisconsin. At one point, Wisconsin was a mediocre team that lost to a mediocre LSU team. Now they're ranked seventh - because they went into league play and won games against admittedly weaker opponents. But the echo chamber effect takes hold (hey they won a bunch of games in a row! We have to keep voting them up!) So now Ohio State is whipping a team that's ranked No. 7 for essentially no valid reason, and they get a lift in schedule that is completely disproportionate to the level of competition.

    it wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that we've taken all the things that made the previous system flawed, we've handed them to a committee, and that's somehow supposed to make the decisions more valid. If the NCAA wanted to make this thing work and be a real, fair and open process, they'd go to the NFL playoff model next year and it would all work fine.
     
  14. Joe2005

    Joe2005 500+ Posts


     
  15. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Agree with the OP 100%...if Texas or OU were in TCU's shoes, they get in the playoff.
     
  16. 22 HORN

    22 HORN 250+ Posts

    TCU was really kicked....

    I have no doubt they could hold their own with any of the 4 that the powers installed in the CFP. The Baylor's and TCU's were left out partially because of lack of national drawing power compared to Al, Or, Fs and OSU.....MONEY!!!!

    And that's a shame....must someway get to 6-8 teams...

    and adopt a uniformed standard for every conference that must be adhered to...
     
  17. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Imagine being TCU now...going from 3rd in the playoff rankings to playing a 3-loss Ole Miss team that lost 3 of their last 5 games. Yikes!
     
  18. 22 HORN

    22 HORN 250+ Posts

    Maybe they will show that superior conference a few things....
     
  19. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  20. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts


     
  21. Joe2005

    Joe2005 500+ Posts


     
  22. Das Mook

    Das Mook 250+ Posts

    The same argument means it also will seem much harder to get 2 teams from the same conference in...
     
  23. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Crockett, my sarcasm meter just exploded.
     
  24. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts


     
  25. PropositionJoe

    PropositionJoe 2,500+ Posts

    i dont know if this contributes to the conversation, but i wonder how much OU losing the bedlam game contributed to the decrease in prestige for the big 12.

    kstate was 14th when they beat OU and jumped up to 11 afterwards.

    TCU was #25 when they beat #4 ranked OU early in the year and jumped up to #9 as a result.

    baylor was #12 when they beat #15 OU and jumped to 7 afterwards.

    OU losing to a pretty poor OSU team might have made the committee second guess whether those three teams deserved to be ranked where they were.
     
  26. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts


     

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