Fenves relocates UT statues

OK ... I looked ... If I missed it, I apologize. There are references within other threads, but I think this warrants its own thread.

If Fenves' decision was righteous, why was the action taken in the darkness of night?

If Fenves' decision was just, why wasn't there a presser about it on Monday, concluding with the first statue being removed.

If Fenves' declaration of the statues' representation is accurate (shared by the neo-nazis/antifas) ... why do the statues remain recognizable and are not ... DESTROYED?

If Fenves' decision is the right one, then we've been wrong for an awful long time ... longer than we actually had slaves, methinks.

Fenves' UT administration has become more aggressive in their appeal for funds from alumni ... yet ... given the City of Dallas has priced the move of their monuments at about 600K/each ... that's 2.4 million/roughly that Fenves just spent in a few hours. I recognize "We're Texas" ... but c'mon.

Don't come crying to me for funds when you can do that ... with such weak justification.

Talk about privilege.

I have made the effort to contact the Board of Regents about this. As a friend of mine said, no doubt trying to throw the starfish back into the sea ... but what else can I do? Walk away? That's what the antifas/Fenves' would have me do ... so ... sent to bor@utsystem.edu

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I was curious to know if Fenves' decision to "relocate" Confederate Soldier/Officer statues on the campus of UT Austin was directed by the UT Board of Regents ... or was it made with the BOR's complicity.

I am a UT graduate; BS '92. I am a Life Member of the Exes. My family has held multiple orders of football season tickets since '88 ... consecutively ... so you know we've seen the good and the, ah, not so good on the gridiron. We have advanced degrees from UT in my family and almost all of us have undergraduate degrees (I married the 4th daughter of 5 children). So to say we are invested in UT would be an understatement.

The University has ALWAYS been a "bastion of liberalism." Part of that is necessary as an institution of higher learning. You know what I learned from the exposure to liberalism during my matriculation? Liberals seek to be a victim first and rarely accept responsibility for themselves. I should have been the poster-boy racist according to some at the University; white male, raised in a rural Texas area who had one black student in his entire school. The wailing of such by "minority" students at UT made it a challenge for me to avoid becoming that which "the progressive feeling" already declared I must be.

What's ironic ... I really could not care less about any of the statues on campus. (OK, I'm fairly fond of Earl and Ricky's) My concern is Fenves' stated "justification." Capitulation to a group who are no more victims of an institution dispatched 150 years ago than anyone today and north of the old mason-dixon line is a beneficiary. Fenves capitulated to a group of people who haven't even lived under a set of real discriminatory laws and including even a generation removed in most cases. Fenves has conceded to a group which has had all of the institutional barriers removed from their path and in fact has been afforded "restitutional" opportunity from which people like myself are specifically denied. I worked in college admissions from 04-08 and now have a 3rd year college student myself. I am aware.

The only thing with which I agreed in the President's letter this week is where he stated we cannot change our history. However, as the Chief Executive must also understand, that history has been demonstrated to repeat itself if forgotten. The reason those statues/memorials exist is so that the sacrifice (even if compelled) is not forgotten. Fenves has contributed to the effort of public memory loss.

Those who look upon the Confederates as evil are listening to a jaded influence with a vested interest in continuing to perpetrate strife in our at-large community. It seems they are doing their "job" exceedingly well. People allegedly of integrity are failing miserably in this endeavor. This is history ladies and gentlemen. Were we wrong to have allowed these memorials to remain on campus all these years? Only NOW are we now so evolved in our sensibilities we recognize the memorial should never have been erected?

Will we say the same thing of the 9/11 memorials in another generation as this "progressive ideology" declares peaceful that very thing which has declared a holy war on all of the West?

I am ashamed to be a UT grad right now. I have considered removing all external references to my association as Fenves has sullied the history (UT's history) I helped create and have been a proud contributor.

Practically speaking ... Fenves' office has whined about lack of funds, yet how much did/will this removal operation cost? Or, am I to understand the crews volunteered their time and perhaps there were bake sales to fund the costs required to operate their machines? Was a raffle held to meet the costs of storage?

Pitiful. Trying to hide that very thing which has made America great ... taking responsibility. We did that at one time. If Fenves/like "minded" were in charge back then, we'd STILL have institutional slavery.

it's time to find a real President for my alma mater, Ladies and Gentlemen. Remove the statues if you feel you must, but make a statement which says "we will acknowledge our history, learn from it, and take responsibility. Those of you making a cause around which to destroy property, injure/mame/kill fellow citizens are on notice: NO MORE"

Make it so. Thank you for your time."

 

I don't think Fenves "capitulated" to the whiners on the left, I think he used the current political climate to do what he himself has been wanting to do for a good long while.

Oh, and FYI, I emailed Fenves directly asking him to explain why Governor Hogg is being painted with the same brush, seeing as how he was 10 years old when the Civil War broke out. I have not gotten a response and I doubt I will.

 

Good point ... I've found, though, presuming honorable intent helps facilitate receipt of response. We'll see if I get anything. Like you, I doubt I will.

I did get a call from DeLoss Dodds in my squadron building at Pope, though! So ... there's a chance!

 

... and the rat dude can save himself a few keystrokes .... he's on this sponsor's "ignored list."

 

the letter sent by President Fenves

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On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Gregory L. Fenves <president@utexas.edu> wrote:
View this email in a web page


Dear Longhorns,
Last week, the horrific displays of hatred at the University of Virginia and in Charlottesville shocked and saddened the nation. These events make it clear, now more than ever, that Confederate monuments have become symbols of modern white supremacy and neo-Nazism.

After the Charleston, South Carolina, church shooting in June 2015, and with the urging of students, I formed a task force of faculty, students, alumni and university leaders to evaluate six statues on UT's Main Mall that included depictions of four military and political leaders of the Confederacy. The task force presented five options, ranging from the installation of contextual materials to the removal of some or all of the statues. At that time, I decided to move the statues of Jefferson Davis and, for symmetry, U.S. President Woodrow Wilson. The Davis statue has since been restored and presented at UT’s Dolph Briscoe Center for American History in a scholarly exhibition about the Littlefield Fountain and the six Main Mall statues.

During the past several days, I have talked with student leaders, students, faculty members, staff members and alumni to listen to their views after the revelatory events in Charlottesville. I also revisited the very thorough 2015 task force report. After considering the original task force report and with the events of the past week and my discussions with the campus community in mind, I decided to relocate the remaining four statues.

Early this morning, the statues depicting Robert E. Lee, Albert Sidney Johnston, John Reagan and James Stephen Hogg were removed from the Main Mall. The Lee, Johnston and Reagan statues will be added to the collection of the Briscoe Center for scholarly study. The statue of James Hogg, governor of Texas (1891-1895), will be considered for re-installation at another campus site.

The University of Texas at Austin is a public educational and research institution, first and foremost. The historical and cultural significance of the Confederate statues on our campus — and the connections that individuals have with them — are severely compromised by what they symbolize. Erected during the period of Jim Crow laws and segregation, the statues represent the subjugation of African Americans. That remains true today for white supremacists who use them to symbolize hatred and bigotry.

The University of Texas at Austin has a duty to preserve and study history. But our duty also compels us to acknowledge that those parts of our history that run counter to the university’s core values, the values of our state and the enduring values of our nation do not belong on pedestals in the heart of the Forty Acres.

We do not choose our history, but we choose what we honor and celebrate on our campus. As UT students return in the coming week, I look forward to welcoming them here for a new academic year with a recommitment to an open, positive and inclusive learning environment for all.
Hook ’em,

Gregory L. Fenves
President

 

This. I'm one of the few people here who didn't go to UT and actually favor taking down Confederate memorials and flags. However, doing it in the middle of the night and without meaningful public debate is the height of cowardice. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Legislature step in. Guys like Dan Patrick don't give a crap what the UT administration thinks.

 

And of course when he says "horrific displays of hatred" he means only the white supremacists, not the antifa douches.

 

I think he means on both sides. However, if white nationalists don't show up with Nazi flags, Trump golf outfits and a lot of "bad dudes" then antifa doesn't show up with smelly beards, bad tattoos and cool anarchist band shirts and their own version of "bad dudes".

 

While the Saturday festivities were crappy. The Friday night activities that tried to bring back the visual of torches merged with Nazi chants like "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us" were hateful and saddening given how many of our ancestors gave their lives fighting MF Nazi's - I googled it....300,000 in Europe.

 

This topic is discussed in the "Good for The University of Texas!" thread but this title is easier to follow.

 

In the time I spent on the UT campus ... I can't remember seriously contemplating the statues that are removed. Maybe the "transition" will generate some interest and academic thought. Sadly enough, a lot of cultural resources on campus are virtually ignored.

I always loved the Harry Ransom Center and all the treasures within. Sometime I would eat my lunch with a view of that building and lament that I'd sometimes see no people enter or leave that amazing repository of art and culture while I read the Daily Texan and finished off a sandwich.

 

I've heard some people suggest that the alt-Right differs from the old neo-Nazis in that they're supposedly more intellectual and smart. I don't see it. They may not run around in white hoods, drop N-bombs, and use poor grammar, but I don't see the intelligence in trying to launch a political movement using overtly Nazi and Nazi-like rhetoric. For example, I remember Richard Spencer's big rally when he referred to the "lugenpresse" (the term Hitler used to refer to hostile media) and yelled "Hail Trump, hail victory, hail our people!" and shouts of "blood and soil." Does the alt-Right not know that most people have a bad association with Nazism and that it's not a good idea to make the movement something people would find socially difficult to publicly support? If I was trying to start a white supremacy movement, I'd use much subtler rhetoric and frame the issues in a way that can be explained more benevolently and harmlessly.

 

It boggles the mind. And now these guys are all up in arms because they're getting doxed.

Also, according to the great Wikipedia as many as 11,000,000 Russian soldiers perished in WWII. Colonel Klink was right to avoid that place.

 

The alt-right would be nothing if the triggered media would ignore them - just like any other troll.

 

Fenves should also plan on removing the Bible verse off of the tower really late at night. There only needs to be liberal thoughts and beliefs at the University.

 

If you mean the Main Building's south entrance/mall ... yes, John 8:32 ... but 31 certainly needs to be read with it.


"31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My Word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;32 and you will know the truth, and the Truth will make you free.”

The Truth addressed in the Main Building inscription really IS Jesus Christ ... but, as my father told me when we were there on my "official visit," spring 87, that isn't the truth which is taught. I well remember looking at that inscription as he counseled me.

My late father was right then ... and he still is ... right.

UT's truth encumbers and exacerbates ... all of "higher ed" pursues its own rather than the One who created it all; who's burden is light and yoke is easy.

 

UT freed me from many mortal burdens and potential burdens as well.

 

The point is not the extremist on either side, both groups that weaken what was a great country, but have the right under a document they refuse to understand to express their opinion, but in a lawful manner not starting riots. Rather the point is that Fenves, liberal reject from Berzerkley, arbitrarily and capriciously made a personal decision to do what he wanted without consulting his bosses, but rather seeking the approval of a handpicked group of "furinners" not Texans, all of whom had "an axe to grind". Try that in the real world, Greg, and see how quickly your *** gets canned and word spreads through the industry and you are soon an Uber driver.

We have a choice, (1) disband the BOR and let Fenves run amuck as the "Committee of One", or (2) find a president that will work with his bosses for the good of The University.

 

BRAVO! Well said, Sabre!

 

I don't really have a problem with it, although I'm surprised Jim Hogg got lumped in also. Then again, we removed Woodrow Wilson last time along with Jefferson Davis since Wilson was such a virulent racist. Maybe Hogg was too? I don't really know much about him.

Maybe originally, but at this point I think Antifa is here to stay as long as there is anybody out there they perceive as being evil racist ******** - which includes way more than just neo-Nazis and white supremacists. It includes anybody who doesn't think a Confederate statue should be taken down or has a Confederate flag or talks about Southern heritage. It apparently even includes Ukrainian immigrants with Blue Lives Matter stickers and even a Black Lives Matter protest group at one point.

Serves them right on the one hand, but mob-based witch hunts are rarely effective. It makes martyrs out of these people, drives them further into the arms of cults and fringe lunatics, and sweeps up innocents in the mad rush (already have had a couple of false positives that we know of). I mean, if it were my employee and I found proof they were out there with a swastika or KKK hood or whatever, I'd fire them too, on principle. I'm just not sure it actually helps anything. I hope it does/will, but....

I keep seeing the modern struggle against the Nazi/white-nationalist/KKK crowd spoken of in terms of WW2, and I find it ridiculous. We weren't a group on individuals on a mission to rid the world of Nazis. We were the military forces of the sovereign nation of America, who were fighting the military forces of the sovereign nation of Germany, not because many of them were Nazis or because they were led by Nazism, but because they declared war on us after we declared war on the sovereign nation of Japan due to them attacking us during peacetime. When the war was over, we stopped fighting, even though there were still plenty of Nazis around. We weren't fighting the sovereign nation of Russia even though they were just as / nearly as evil as the Nazis, because Russia, unlike Germany, did not declare war on us. I have trouble establishing more than a very tenuous connection between the two.

Surely it's hateful and saddening enough of it's own accord? I mean, if they were spewing hateful racist chants primarily at people of Chinese and Filipino ethnicity, would people be saying stuff like "And the worst part is we dropped atomic bombs on a bunch of anti-Chinese and anti-Filipino ******** last time we faced this problem!"?

 

I don't agree with everything you said Stat, but you made a some great points and I thought that was a well-written post.

 

As I said before, what a wonderful decision by the president to remove the racist statues. The only statues that should be on that campus anyway are the great Barbara Jordan and Mr. King.

 

Let's just ban white people from UT. Make them go to TSU.

 

I opine the cartoon footed statue of the Californian Communist cabbage picker be replaced with a statue of Santos Benavides on a war horse. All of my Mexican friends in San Antonio and Laredo are on board with the change.

 

I agree with much of what you said. I do think that our culture in the 1930s and 40s saw some degree of people being motivated to sign up because of the Nazi as the "big/bad". I didn't live then so it's really just conjecture. Looking at old news footage that seems like a reasonable assessment. However, you are correct about the sovereign nation things. I don't see how those good German kids ended up fighting to the death for that evil regime. And, fighting those that bombed Pearl Harbor was not a hard sell either.

 

Germans fought to the end because of what happened after WWI.

 

The threat level for there being a school shooting would dramatically go down. Seeing the fact that white people love to shoot up schools and commit mass murders.

 

Yep, I know that's what I like to do when I get bored.

 

Enough.

 

I've wondered the same thing many times. I highly recommend The Black March by Peter Neumann. It's by a German who joined the SS and it answers the question as best as anything can. He seems to just be telling things how they were for him; didn't look like he was making excuses or justifying anything, just explaining what he did and why he did it.