Well I was not going to respond again to this thread, but I guess I have to do so. The reason I was not going to respond was hornarama clarified he did not intend a personal attack so I thought it best to let the thing die there and hornarama and I could debate another time on another thread. There really is not that much left to say other than people repeating themselves but if you, the reader, want more repetition, read further. I will clarify to Hornarama that I had the same reaction as Stat. I found the 50s response bizarre since I have been focussed on recent statewide tournament failure and one final four in the last 30 years. See the following excerpts of this post on a thread I started (maybe no on looked at as it got 0 responses. It's the State of Texas goes 0-5 thread. I updated it yesterday with final results).
As the post points out, 5 of the state's 12 final fours were in the 50s and 40s and we have had a 30 year drought of only one final four. Our state went 3-10 in all 4 postseason tournaments combined this year! Maybe Hornarama did not see that thread and I misconstrued his post. It just did not seem to be logical to what I was saying. I retract my "lost all credibility" statement and will take hornarama at his word that he was not making racist implications or making a personal attack. Moving on to the repetition.
I too am a longtime spurs fan, but it has been my experience that many spurs fans (obviously no one here) do not know much about basketball (though they know quite a bit about the spurs) and are mostly interested because that is the only pro team San Antonio has. Winning NBA titles helps with interest. The interest for college and high school basketball in san antonio is nowhere near what it is for high school and college football. My experience with mavs fans (f*** the mavs and cuban) has been they are mostly only interested because they are winning (that is true of dallas anything, see the lack of rangers fans until recently). Not ALL fans, but many are just crazy about their teams because both franchises have been successful lately.... though I will qualify that San Antonio is pretty hardcore in supporting any team in any sport it gets (and it is BS that we could not support a pro football team). I have attended at least one UTSA football game a year when Texas had a bye or a road game played at a different time and I would say turnout has been solid for UTSA football. UTSA basketball made the tournament one time, got some attention and lost to stanford but people are generally not interested in UTSA basketball like they are UTSA football.
Pro sports are not a good indicator for high school and college talent/interest (a good point Crockett made earlier). Massachusetts has great pro football and baseball that people are passionate about, but that does not mean they have great college or high school football/baseball (I know their college baseball is bad, but I admit I do not know about Massachusetts high school baseball) or even great interest in those areas. I know wherever I have been in Texas, people (young or old) do not live and breath basketball like they do football. It's not even close (well El Paso has some pretty solid college basketball support). In the north and east, people do live and breath basketball. We are a state of 26 million and do not turn out the same talent or interest as smaller states in the north and east do. It's because everyone wants to play football first. In my high school (which made the top 8 in the 5A playoffs in basketball, football, and baseball) basketball was a distant third. A few players that played D1 basketball and were mediocre at football STILL played football. They had no business playing football, the coaches told them to stick to basketball, but they played football anyway. Mike basically makes this point with
What sport did that player stick with?
Mike, yes there are passionate young basketball people and some stick with it. I got stuck listening to two mavs fans the other night at a party. There are also passionate soccer people and many stick with it. Every argument you've made could be made about soccer. A lot of people play soccer as kids now and stick with it awhile. Many people coach soccer and are passionate. Is this state a soccer hotbed? Do we produce fantastic soccer talent? (should clarify men's soccer, I know our state is good at women's soccer and women's basketball for that matter!)
The proof is in the results. The results are we just went 3-10 as a state in all four postseason tournaments combined. In the past 30 years (the modern integrated era), only one school made it to the final four one time with the man many want to fire. Does this state probably have better basketball development now than ever? Yes! However, a state with 26 million people should be able to fill out multiple teams of 5-10 players that are final four competitive if it is serious about basketball. Instead we have one at best if any and Rick Barnes has often had to do it with out of state players. IF a Texas coach could get the 5-10 best players in this state, I agree that he could win a national title. The problem is those players know how lame texas basketball environments are and how people are not passionate about it. I have pointed out I would fully support the athletic department doing something about getting or at least trying to to get that passionate environment, regardless of whether we keep Barnes, because it would be a big boost to whoever the Texas basketball coach is.
Larry Brown (SMU), Billy Kennedy (A&M) and Scott Drew (Baylor) are not good example of Texas basketball recruiting.
1. They have already caught SMU basketball in funny business.
2. As stated in another thread, Billy Kennedy is terrible and has been unable to recruit or win in 4 years. Now, suddenly he is getting top recruits while losing to Auburn in the SEC tournament and getting run off of his home floor by the likes of Louisiana Tech last night? (If you want to see the opposite of a Rick Barnes defense, watch A&M in the last 10 minutes of the A&M-La Tech game. I am pretty sure I watched a La Tech guard go uncontested through all 5 a&m players straight to the basket, miss an uncontested layup, get his own offensive rebound uncontested, then put it back in uncontested. All i could say was "wow.")
3. Do you really believe Scott Drew and Baylor are clean right now (in any of their men's or women's sports)?
Now one argument y'all have ignored is that florida has had a lot of immigration from the northeast (though Donovan still won his titles with many out of state players). Maybe the immigration to Texas from the north and california will help our state's basketball? Maybe my views are about to be out of date as the poor 1985-2015 era of Texas basketball is coming to an end. Who knows?
Anyway, in conclusion, I cannot agree about this state being a basketball hotbed until there is some sort of consistency from any school. I do hope that whenever Barnes goes, the next coach is someone like Billy Donovan that will take Texas basketball to a consistent level of success that has not been seen in this state since U of H in the 60s and 80s.
P.S. I do not apologize for any shots I took at Dallas, the mavs, or their fans. The spurs lost while I was typing this up and I am not happy about it.
Last edited: Mar 25, 2015