figured since we have a circumcision question on here, might as well bring up baptism. 1) did you do it for your kid and why? 2) any central/north central Austin church recs? I grew up in a Lutheran church but am far from religious. I'll occasionally go to service at Christmas when we're back home but that's about it. I don't belong to a church currently in Austin but figured I should start looking into this.; so let me know and I don't need any Jesus crispy west mall responses.
We baptized our son (now almost 1) when he was four months old. We now attend a Lutheran (ELCA) church in Dallas, although neither I nor my wife grew up in the Lutheran church (I was Presbyterian and she was non-denominational). We chose infant baptism because of what it symbolizes (cleansing of sins and welcoming into the church, with a promise from the congregation that it will help raise the child in a Christian manner). In this sense, it's more like a christening in the Catholic church or a dedication in Christian churches where adult baptism is the norm (in the Lutheran church, the confirmation process/service during teenage years serves much the same role as baptism does in those churches). I got this from the ELCA website on baptism, which adds a nice perspective on it:
Yes, we had our daughter Baptised. But then, we are practicing Christians (Catholic). And it is part of our belief system that the Baptism cleanses original sin away. We attend St. Elizabeth's in Pflugerville. I would imagine, since you grew up Lutheran, you would want to look there first? Redeemer, and St. Paul's (near campus, so I don't know if that's north enough...) come to mind. By the way, Catholics also call it a Baptism. And, like the Lutherans, there is a Confirmation made by the kiddo sometime around middle/high school age.
Yeah, I've seen St. Paul and I kind of live by Trinity? over on 45th. Lutheran is probably where we'd look first because I don't really remember it being an in your face type service, etc. My wife is Catholic but she does not practice , just grew up in it, and she doesn't want to go to a Catholic church, not that there's anything wrong with them. You're correct on the confirmation, I think I was "confirmed" around middle school.
My wife and I live in Houston, but when we visit Austin (which is pretty regularly), we attend church at St. Martin's (and at St. Mary's RC). They are very welcoming there and they have both contemorary and tradition services. While I've yet to go, I've also heard good things about St. David's Episcopal.
I supported Catholic baptism of both my kids, as young babies, because that is what I agreed to as part of getting married by the Catholic church, an uber important issue with my wife's parents, bless their souls. As an atheist, this didn't bother me in the least. We had them confirmed in an Indonesian Catholic church in Simpang Padang, Sumatra (a dump). That was interesting and exotic. Anyway, I kept my part of the bargain. Some bargains you make with the devil, some with the pope. Such is life on this planet.
NBMisha, I know you and I have discussed relgion before, but I must say you really are a pretty open-minded dude. The world could use more go along/get along folks like you.
I do not believe in original sin, therefore I do not believe in baptizing babies. If there was original sin, why did God tell Cain that sin was crouching at the door but he must master it? If there was original sin, and Jesus was born in the flesh, how was he a perfect, sinless sacrifice for us?
Our child will be baptized when he is older and can make a choice and a positive confession of faith. That is more in line with southern Baptist doctrine - while I was baptized as a baby, I took part in believer's baptism at 24 and it was my way of making an outward statement of belief in Christ. At the same time, I have no quarrel with someone who chooses to practice infant baptism.
So here's my question. Let's say you're a good Christian, you've given your life to Christ but you haven't been baptized. What's the consequence?
I personally don't believe there is a consequence per se; at least, the God I believe in doesn't seem like a vengeful type (contrary to what you see espoused in some Christian doctrines). I think it's a symbolic "mystical act of unity" as Brisket and others referenced above.
The early, early church didn't baptize children. They baptized people who became believers. I too subscribe to the southern Baptist philosophy of baptism. It's an outward expression of your faith, a symbol of being born again with your sins "washed away".
Haven't seen much in the way of recommendations. You may want to check out Shoreline on N Mopac. They "dedicate" babies once a month (as some have indicated, "baptism" comes later in life) and since it's a large church there might be 20 babies. Each baby gets an individual dedication, but since it's also a group affair you might feel more comfortable. Shoreline is a pretty cool church, definitely more contemporary than most with a very diverse congregation.
Well, this is moderately interesting. Umm ... I was baptized as an infant, of course I don't remember it. My mother was Methodist, my step-father was Catholic. They couldn't get married in the Catholic church because the Catholic church had some problems with divorce, remarriage, and their ideas on what doing such would make the children. So, my mother and step-father were married in a Lutheran church. Later, I went to Lutheran Sunday School and then drove to the Catholic Student Center (maybe it has a new name now), but it was the Catholic church just south of where the fountain is near Parlin, Mezes, Calhoun, Benedict, Batts, and Rainey (on 21st St.). The church was there a couple of years ago when I went to a funeral there. Anyway, I also went through Confirmation when I was 13-14 at the Lutheran Church (First English, at 30th and Whitis). When I was married, my wife and I spent a lot of time in church (Calvary Chapel, a non-denominational church) or at other church-related activities -- at least 3 days per week. I was baptized as an adult in Lake Austin at City Park. I don't really have anything to add other than my experiences. I don't go to church anymore. I'm a C and E guy (Christmas and Easter), though I will go out of respect if I'm with my family. Church, worship, devotion, and prayer are extremely important to them. Not so much for me. Anyway, think about it; make your own choice based on your beliefs. If you're looking for a church, I would suggest Calvary Chapel (I haven't been in a while but apparently they are somewhere in the Pflugerville area) -- however, like any church or organization there will always be things you disagree with.
I'll make a recommendation. St. Paul's is my church and we'd love to have you. When a child is baptised and we sing "Children of the Heavenly Father", we are all reminded that we are his children and that we are all responsible for the new 'child' in our midst. It's a good thing and something you'll never forget. I've had the pleasure of having my Father-in-Law baptize all three of his grand daughters and each was special and important, not just to their families, but to the grand congregation of Christians everywhere.
So here's my question. Let's say you're a good Christian, you've given your life to Christ but you haven't been baptized. What's the consequence? None whatsoever. But then again, a "good" Christian would have been baptized. Assuming that we're operating entirely and exclusively within the Christian subset of religious belief, there are (as mentioned) differing views on baptism: required, not required but nice to have, ok for infants, better if you're aware of what's going on (i.e., not an infant). There are bible verses that do more to muddy the waters than clarify things, as well. Baptism exists, looking at it outside of the mystical and magical framework, as a community rite that strengthens the bond between the organization (church) and its members (baptized person and the family of the baptized person, as well as the congregation). It's really an initiation ritual.
I would recommend that your child only get baptized once they believe in Jesus Christ. That is what we are doing with our children. It all really boils down to who your authority is. If you are Catholic (maybe Lutheran too?), then mother Church tells you that Baptism is necessary for salvation(must be done at birth) and so you best do it. Basically, if the church is your authority... do what it says. If you think tradition is the authority, then read up on the early church fathers. I personally (and my particular denomination) holds the scripture as the authority and the pattern in scripture is that Faith is always before Baptism. Therefore, a baby cannot exude faith, so we will wait until our little one believes or not. I want baptism to be memorable for my child... Obviously it won't be if its done when he has no capacity for memories.
OrangeChipper, I agree with that. Baptism was used to signify the "total immersion" of one's self to a specific cause. (I tried to find a link to an unbiased definition of Baptism other then Wikipedia, but I don't have the time) People could be theoretically "baptized" into Texas Football if they wanted to. In churches that don't baptize babies, it means the same thing. It's a symbol of our choice to follow Christ as well as a public confession that He is Lord. The Faith that cleanses us of our sin is usually attained before the baptism. Baptism in itself, to me, has no real function other than a symbol and public confession. If somebody doesn't know what they're doing it for, i.e. a baby, then I see no reason to baptize them.
If somebody doesn't know what they're doing it for, i.e. a baby, then I see no reason to baptize them. I would assume that in the case of an infant, the parents would know why they are conducting that rite. And wouldn't the Holy Ghost perform His work in the child? So I don't really find your example relevant to infant baptism.
