Disinterested parties / no dog in this fight opinions of UT & Herman

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Statalyzer, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    No agenda here other than gaining some different perspectives. Just wondered how people with no particular pro or anti Texas or Herman or whatever bias would look at the Texas coaching situation from the outside, so did some searching and found a few threads with varying opinions that may or may not be insightful. Mostly probably less informed on the details, but also with different preconceived notions about us than we have about ourselves...

    Virginia Tech fans:
    Tom Herman?

    Ohio State fans wondering about what would happen if Herman were at Michigan (maybe not the best example b/c some of them are clearly bitter about him feuding with Zack Smith, but I tried to pick out only quotes that didn't seem to reflect that attitude):
    Would Tom Herman to Michigan Make You Nervous?

    Miami (FL) fans:
    Tom Herman

    There's no clear theme anywhere, but a few slight trends emerged in that Virginia Tech folks were a little more of the opinion that Texas had too high of expectations, Ohio State folks were a little more on the Herman just isn't good enough side, and Miami folks tended to single out the UT culture.
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  2. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Love this, Stat. Much appreciated.
    I am in the TH is not as good as he thinks nor a good fit here, but there is a definite problem with our culture that didnt arrive when he did and won't leave when he does.
    Can a Saban, Meyer, etc type overcome this?
    Temporarily...cover it for awhile...but the problem persists.
    Herman made it/brought out the worst.
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  3. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    I actually think he would do well in a place like a non-Clemson ACC school. The expectations need to be delivered upon, and he could do that by showing marginal improvement upon a predecessor, much like he did from the Chuck Strong years.

    I disagree that our BMDs are any worse than Bama's. They just got the right guy at the right "doesn't fit in the NFL" timeframe instead of another Mike Shula. Tom is clearly no Saban, but I could see him taking a similar route in HC jobs.
  4. Driver 8

    Driver 8 smoooove

    Excellent post Stat, very interesting to hear different fan perspectives
    It would also be interesting to know the candid thoughts of Mack, Charlie, and Herman to the question: what makes your job here harder? Serious question. What stands in the way of you doing your best work? Is it the BMDs meddling? The administration? something else?
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  5. Chop

    Chop 2,500+ Posts

    This is a tough place to coach no doubt, and the expectations are sky high. Still, I don’t think coaching at Ohio State, USC*, Alabama, or Notre Dame is any easier, and I don’t think their big alumni are more easy-going or hands off than ours.

    There are plenty of coaches who are perfectly happy being a legend at a mid-to-high level competitor like TCU, Okla State, KSU, etc., and would rather avoid the constant limelight and very high expectations that comes with the premier programs. Nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different personalities.

    *speaking of USC, they’re just one year removed from wanting to run their head coach out of town on a rail.
  6. Son of a Son

    Son of a Son 1,000+ Posts

    Winning cures most things...BMDs don't get vocal when they're happy and culture most likely isn't a problem while a team is winning.

    Interestingly, the one thing I don't see mentioned here, which I think is painfully obvious, is Tom has not shown the ability to learn. Clock management while ahead is still woefully inadequate, and that "should" be a relatively easy fix...
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  7. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

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  8. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    I learned one thing: Rando twitterer.
  9. rick mueller

    rick mueller Burnt Orange Bleeder

    At least we know that we still live rent free in aggy head. So there's that.
  10. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Honestly if he had just beaten OU more than he lost I do not think he’d be in any where near the seat he finds himself now. But then there is the culture thing - that may be the ultimate killer here.
  11. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Nah, it's everything else. Mack lost 5 straight to OU going in to 2005, including the 2 worst point differentials in series history. TH was at least competitive with OU each year. It's the playing down to everyone else that's the problem du jour. No one would even talk about the social justice stuff if we play like we were from October 2004 through September 2006.
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  12. Chinstrap

    Chinstrap 500+ Posts

    His last year at Houston was 9-4 with wins over OU, Louisville (Lamar Jackson), Cincinnati and Tulsa but losses to SMU, Memphis, San Diego State and Navy. SMU was a 5-7 team.
    He can win the big games and does not get blown out. That I like! I fear he has a tendency sometimes to play to the level of competition and comes up short. Winning the big games is important, but you have to win the ones you are supposed to win.
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  13. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 1,000+ Posts

    It wasn't hard for Mack, but he knew how to win friends and influence people. It's amazing how poor Tom has been with the political aspects of coaching at Texas, especially with HS coaches. Also, his in game decision making.

    I certainly want to see him gone ASAP, but one thing that has bothered me though is those that say all that 5* talent. Reality is Texas has signed very few 5* players and has recruited poor at some positions such as LB and OL. You're only as strong as your weakest link. It doesn't matter if you have a bunch of 5*'s if they all play safety. What does Texas have at LB? A juco transfer, converted safety and some walk on's.

    Of course he's to blame for that, but to say Texas has 5*'s at every position is simply wrong. Certainly TH has been poor at coaching them up, but Texas has not recruited as well as Bama, LSU, Clemson, OSU or Georgia either.

    And BTW, when Mack was hired I remember going to an alumni event and him greeting everyone, shaking my hand. I don't remember TH doing anything like that. I also sent Mack an email and he sent me back a personal letter. I sent Tom and email and nothing.
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  14. BornOrange0855

    BornOrange0855 100+ Posts

    This is hitting the nail on the head. Our so called "talent" is vastly overrated. We get maybe one or two 5 stars every year, sometimes none. Bama, Clemson, OSU gets 4-5 per year. Of course the recruiting services aren't always right with their ratings. But I look at our players. OL and DL for example--maybe Ossai could play at a Clemson or Bama or even OU. No one else would ever see the field.
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  15. Creek

    Creek 1,000+ Posts

    At Texas the focus ( you get buried) for who you lost to, not who you beat.
    Most everywhere else the focus is on who you beat.
    Example: If Texas gets beat by TCU the backlash is severe even if they beat OU. If ATM beats Bama all is great even if they fall to Ole Miss...
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  16. n64ra

    n64ra 500+ Posts

    Tom is a good G5 head coach. He may even do fine at a P5 school who doesn't expect conference championships like Wake Forest.
    But how in the world is Texas a hard place to win while tOSU, OU, and Bama are not? I can think of LHN shows as one difference, but I don't see canceling that as getting us to the CFP.
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  17. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 5,000+ Posts

    No, thanks!....aggys....my god, those folks take the prize.
  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    All Herman had to do to make the B-12 championship game was
    -- beat Iowa State
    -- at home
    -- on Senior Day
    -- with 3 weeks to prepare
    -- with ISU on a short week
    -- with ISU travelling
    -- Iowa State!
    This alone was enough cause for CDC to take action
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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  19. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Curious how you came to choose these three places:

    1) Convicts - all four of their alumni that can be found; the rest are WalMart t-shirt fans living in crack houses and trailer parks

    2) VT - Beamer deserves an award for the most creative use of airline tickets in recruiting. How does a kid from the 757 with one pair of shoes when he arrives at the end of that dirt road that stops in Blacksburg, suddenly have 20 unused airline tickets to cash in?

    3) Ohio State - Herman came from that capital of polyester, as will Meyer. Their opinion probably has some value.

    How about people that matter - LSU, A&M, OU, oSu, Alabama, UGA
  20. George Bailey

    George Bailey No beans in my chili, thank you

    At a&m, if they lose to Bama and Ole Miss then Bama goes on to win an NC and Ole Miss crushes someone in a bowl? a&m is clearly better off by leaving tu in their dust. secsecsec.
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  21. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Don’t completely agree about the win/loss aspect cause I think beating OU covers a multitude of sins. Of course back in the day a win over OU and aggie was golden.
  22. Badass

    Badass 2,500+ Posts

    Whoever posted in another thread nailed it to me with the Gladiator reference. One line in that movie is Win The Crowd Win Your Freedom. Herman lost the Crowd (i.e us alums and non alum fans) this summer when he allowed all the off field distractions to dominate what they are really here for, football
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  23. MajorRules00

    MajorRules00 100+ Posts

    Returning emails is hard. But seriously, we got spoiled by Mack. Nobody was better at managing the personal/political side of things than he was. To the point that he actually got heat for it.

    His replacement didn't have that skill set. And neither does the current coach. Perhaps his replacement will.
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  24. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Rest of that post was fair, but not this part. They are a legitimately good team.

    The only ones I found in a limited amount of time with threads about Herman that came up on internet searches and had a few reasonable thoughts in them.

    I doubt that makes their fans any more knowledgeable but, if you want to search all their fan forums you can find and see if they have any threads about Herman, sure, would also be interesting to see (although I doubt you get much objectivity out of OU/ATM).
  25. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    The very frustrating part of the Tom Herman era is the inability to finish games close games,
    If this was the first season in which we were losing close games by field goals or less, I would give him a pass. It’s a pattern

    And the inability to dominate the teams we are expected to beat easily. Who have we dominated from start to finish In TH era? Not very many and some of those close games have resulted in close upset losses due to TH’s tendency to lose those.

    Also I can count on one hand the games we have played in which we won all three phases. If the offense plays well, the defense shits the bed. If the defense plays well, the offense turtles. Sometimes the flip the script at halftime!
    It’s as if the head coach puts too much emphasis on one side of the ball or the other, which just goes to show you need strong coordinators. Herman did himself in with poor choices there and replacing both of them in one year is not a good sign.

    Ok that’s three very frustrating parts of the Tom Herman era. I meant to make a statement about one. I could go on... but does anyone think Tom Herman can address all of these deficiencies?

    even if we were recruiting well this year (we’re not) there are some things recruiting just can’t fix.
  26. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    It is interesting to see the thoughts from the outside.
    Ifinding the right coach to steer a ship as large as ours is hard to do.
    And Tom Herman might be a decent head college football coach. But is not as easy as an equation where you can plug in a decent coach, add our resources, and the results are greatness. TomHerman ain’t the guy for us

    Ohio state seems to be doing something right, Bama just happens yo have their “forever coach” at the moment. Outside of those two teams, we’re in the same boat as a lot of other blue blood programs looking for the right fit
  27. BornOrange0855

    BornOrange0855 100+ Posts

    I think Herman can probably be a good coach. I mean anyone who has been in coaching for 20 something years has to know a lot about the game. But Herman came in as if he had already won a national title, like he was the Big Kahuna, on the same level with DKR and Mack Brown. With his cryptic, arrogant remarks ( there is no fairy dust; we are in better shape than when we arrived; I can see things that show improvement that the fans can't), he lost control of the ship--that he never had gained ownership or control over in the first place. You can only be an arrogant know it all who invented the game when you win. That's the foundation. Win games, then brag about how smart you are, not the other way around. He obviously skipped Coaching 101 and went straight to Grad School. And he wasn't ready. We would have let him grow into the job. That we lost faith in him is his fault.

    I think Texas is a tough place to coach. Truth is, we might have unrealistic expectations. We might have BMDs who put their unwanted two cents in on Monday morning after a game that the coach has to deal with. But that's the gig. Navigate it, or don't come here. I'm a lot older than Herman, and presumably wiser. But I'd try to recognize where all the land mines were and figure out a way to avoid stepping on them. He seemed to just trudge ahead without any regard. Arrogant and Ignorant. It didn't work for Napoleon either.

    End of my senior thesis.
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  28. Chop

    Chop 2,500+ Posts

    I'm pretty much onboard with your thoughts. I'll add that poor clock management, some of the red-zone play calling, and the lack of halftime (and other in-game) adjustments have been recurring thorns in our side.
  29. Handler

    Handler 500+ Posts

    My Ohio St fans are all surprised how Herman has struggled, they bring up a Lane Kiffin when describing him. On a side note, they are concerned if Urban takes us up on our offer, their QB's coach is I think Urban's son-in-law and has a great relationship with Ewers. S&C coach is a stud obviously compared to Yancy and is really close to Urban as well.
  30. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Urban Meyer grosses me out but I have to admit I may find myself boarding the UM or bust train if I keep hearing about stuff like that.

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