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Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Mr. Deez, Feb 8, 2012.
Yeah I feel like that makes it worse.
Happy Columbus Day!
FU Cristoforo Colombo
Brief Account of the Devastation of the Indies
"As for the vast mainland, which is ten times larger than all Spain, even including Aragon and Portugal, containing more land than the distance between Seville and Jerusalem, or more than two thousand leagues, we are sure that our Spaniards, with their cruel and abominable acts, have devastated the land and exterminated the rational people who fully inhabited it. We can estimate very surely and truthfully that in the forty years that have passed, with the infernal actions of the Christians, there have been unjustly slain more than twelve million men, women, and children. In truth, I believe without trying to deceive myself that the number of the slain is more like fifteen million."
Brief Account of the Devastation of the Indies
Their reason for killing and destroying such an infinite number of souls is that the Christians have an ultimate aim, which is to acquire gold, and to swell themselves with riches in a very brief time and thus rise to a high estate disproportionate to their merits. It should be kept in mind that their insatiable greed and ambition, the greatest ever seen in the world, is the cause of their villainies. And also, those lands are so rich and felicitous, the native peoples so meek and patient, so easy to subject, that our Spaniards have no more consideration for them than beasts. And I say this from my own knowledge of the acts I witnessed. But I should not say "than beasts" for, thanks be to God, they have treated beasts with some respect; I should say instead like excrement on the public squares. And thus they have deprived the Indians of their lives and souls, for the millions I mentioned have died without the Faith and without the benefit of the sacraments. This is a wellknown and proven fact which even the tyrant Governors, themselves killers, know and admit. And never have the Indians in all the Indies committed any act against the Spanish Christians, until those Christians have first and many times committed countless cruel aggressions against them or against neighboring nations. For in the beginning the Indians regarded the Spaniards as angels from Heaven. Only after the Spaniards had used violence against them, killing, robbing, torturing, did the Indians ever rise up against them.
I have read enough history about America before Columbus to know that much of what De Las Casas wrote was for polemics and not all that accurate in many ways.
Columbus did bad things. All of the Conquistadors I have read about were violent and aggressive. The American Indians weren't by and large peaceful or friendly.
The negative stuff written about the Spainards were by Protestant England, Netherlands, and others who were competing against Spain in the New World (called black tales). Most of it is fantasy. There is likely a kernel of truth but in the whole it is not credible. Pure propaganda.
The Black tales were the Steele dossier if its day.
In case being told three times wasn't enough, it's pure propaganda.
It’s worse. When modern historians re-discovered the black tales (which past historians never thought credible), it fit nicely into the current narrative of native genocide by Europeans. As such it was accepted without a critical eye (confirmation bias). At the same time, these same historians were ignoring first hand accounts of human sacrifice by Aztecs and others on a massive scale. Talk about turning the world upside down. All done for the pursuit of cultural Marxism.
Bartolomé de las Casas is Spanish and traveled with Colon as the Bishop. He had first hand knowledge of what happened. I take his diary and his account over your crap any day of my life. You should stop lying, o nm your probably a "Christian".
There are many accounts of native genocide by White people in the Americas, this fact is not disputed. I know your a Tumpanzie so you live in some kind of bizzaro world. You of full of it and you know it, so pathetic.
In casebeing told three times wasn't enough, mchammer is full of it and pathetic.
These last few posts are putting mchammer in a much different light. Yes, the Aztecs practiced in mass ritual human sacrifice. Yes, the Spanish conquistadors also carried out significant atrocities, some by choice and others simply due to their presence (unintentional germ warfare).
Regardless, the indigenous people were vastly overmatched and lost "bigly".
I stand corrected. I had him confused with black legends I researched last year.
Thanks for owning up to it.
And to be honest, I was mostly just busting their balls for posting 3 times.
Source of my confusion. According to critics, the exaggerations from the book fed the creation of the black legends.
Bartolomé de las Casas - Wikipedia
A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies - Wikipedia
The book has been critiqued for centuries for its reliability about the treatment of the indigenous people and the number of indigenous people who died as a result of the mistreatment by the Spanish conquistadors. It was written to persuade the Spanish king to act in response to the Spanish conquistadors' abuse of the indigenous population. As a primarily persuasive text, many critics argue that facts and figures about the mistreatment and death toll were exaggerated, making the text largely unreliable.
The book became an important element in the creation and propagation of the so-called Black Legend – the tradition of describing the Spanish empire as exceptionally morally corrupt and violent. It was republished several times by groups that were critical of the Spanish realm for political or religious reasons. The first edition in translation was published in Dutch in 1578, during the religious persecution of Dutch Protestants by the Spanish crown, followed by editions in French (1578), English (1583), and German (1599) – all countries where religious wars were raging.
Can we just post this series of posts every Columbus Day cause I ain’t getting younger and I can’t remember what I concluded the previous year.
LeBron James calls Daryl Morey uneducated?
LeBron: Morey 'misinformed' before China tweet
This exemplifies today’s liberal. A guy with no education, but can dunk a basketball is a thought leader. Morey wasn’t educated?
Elton John defends Ellen DeGeneres and being friends with people you disagree with. Link.
Yep, the chapters and verses in the bible that say go kill others for gold and riches are really interesting. Those crazy Christians. If they keep it up, they may graduate to becoming Muslims.
Elton John despite being suddenly world famous as a young adult turned out to be a decent fellow.
He quotes a priest who (along with many other priests of his Order and one other Order if wiki is to be believed) tries to protect the natives. The worse of the Spanish slave holders apparently ignore them.
Not sure why this is particularly contentious.