Germany's Refugee Crises

Mr D
Thank you for answering the question

 

I was hoping he said "both" although that probably wouldn't be acceptable in the Conservative party.

 

Sweden, not Germany - but they are now arresting artists over art they dont like

 

Libs are all for free speech and expression as long as they agree with the message (note the Illinois college students keeping Trump off campus). If they don't agree with it, STFU.

 

^ These are two separate issues. Free speech is under heavy assault in America and that's one issue. European nations, whether they have had liberal or conservative regimes, have never really had free speech to the extent that it exists in the United States. Our much broader right to free speech is one or the things that makes America great in my opinion.

Now maybe Europeans and some liberal college students in the United States feel differently, but personally I think throwing someone in jail for that satirical expression, even if some find it to be in bad taste, is silly and sad.

Some Americans complain that some US policies make us look backwards to Europeans. Throwing artists in jail reminds me that many Europeans are backwards on some things as well.

 

Sweden's laws are different from those in the U.S. Obviously that cartoon is protected speech here. I wish it were everywhere, but I can accept that Swedes write their own laws.

 

Interesting concept; that a nation has the right to write its' own laws. I absolutely agree.
I wonder how many people also think a nation has the right and even obligation to enforce its' own laws.

 

I agree with this so much, I wish Americans would be okay with letting states they dont reside in write their own laws as well. Instead, americans on both sides seem to want to go to the courts and impose their gun, abortion, marriage, economic, etc views on all the states.

So many Americans that do not live in, visit or have a connection to Mississippi, for example, have an opinion on what the Mississippi state flag should look like.

 

Sure. Doesn't makes the Swedes right in doing so for any particular law.

 

I agree with your point, but it's mostly liberals who use the courts to try to screw with states. DC v. Heller is an exception, but for the most part, the Right leaves the liberal states alone.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35842922

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/03/87128-2/

Dutch representative who opposes islamic immigration is on trial for "hate speech." I'll say it again. God Bless America

The whole "hate speech" mindset is crazy to me. Sure I am not a fan of people saying hateful things of, for example, Christians, Texans, Longhorns, etc, but I never think "oh that aggy just said he hopes a comet hits austin and kills all the 'sips.' Someone should put that person in jail!"

I will note that Wilders does appear to be an extremist and supports banning korans, mosques, etc. I do not agree with this policy positions nor would support him if I were dutch, but just as muslims should have the right to worship, I agree with allowing free speech. Also, no I have no interest in telling the Dutch what to do, just continuing observations on the refugee crisis.

 

And the AfD and similar parties (and Trump) just got a little stronger. Link.

 

As Ben Franklin observed, democracy is two foxes and a hen deciding what is for dinner. Saying that the foxes should be left alone to make their own decisions is overly simplified and somewhat naive.

States should be left alone when they pass laws that others think are unwise. States should not be left alone when they pass laws that improperly infringe on individual's rights. The difficulty is that the right and left disagree on what rights individuals have and what infringements are improper.

 

To be fair, Merkel poured gasoline on the fire, but she didn't start it. Most of the terrorists who are launching these attacks are Belgian or French-born citizens whose parents emigrated to Europe in the '70s and '80s. We should be blaming the leaders of that period as well blaming Merkel for not learning the lessons of those leaders.

 

I see your point MrD BUT it is not the parents who have turned extreme.What was it? maybe a combination of those immigrants living in enclaves that didn't encourage assimilation radical imans in mosques attractive ideology on social media and lack of employment?
It seems there are plenty of foreign born guiding and aiding the French and Belgian born.
How long before an attack like this takes place in Germany? Sweden?

 

Who is she quoting? Her own written statement?

 

To put it in terms with which Joe Fan might agree.

Gun owners are not our adversary. Gun owners are for the most part peaceful, careful and life-loving. More than 99 percent of them have nothing whatsoever to do with the following Wikipedia entry: According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

 

There's no question that it's a combination of things, and it's probably different things for each one of the terrorists. Just like in the US, some in Europe discourage assimilation. Economic problems also persist. And there are a million other causes for this. However, the bottom line is that if European nations hadn't adopted open border policies in the '70s and '80s and didn't enact the Schengen Agreement (allows passport and visa free travel between EU countries), these guys would be somebody else's problem.

 

Ah MrD
Nail on head,
Many have suggested ( you might even have been one. I for sure was)that EU and USA and Arab nations should create areas in Syria etc and keep people in their own land. It should be better for them and certainly cheaper for all of us. It might also give incentive to Arab nations to help fight radical islamists.
I know Germany's reasoning was their aging population but Good Lord there has to be a better way to bring people in .
I do laugh when BO's minions exclaim that we have an effective vetting system so we likely won't be importing any radicals. Yea our system worked so well for the islamist bride who killed all those people in Calif.

Edit to add
from Washington Examiner:
Figures from the Department of Homeland Security show that the president has already issued 680,000 green cards to immigrants from Muslim nations over the past five years. Unless Congress changes his policy, that number will be repeated in the next five years."
DHS data released by the Sen. Jeff Sessions' Judiciary subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest, noted that refugees, who must apply for a green card within one year, have instant access to federal welfare and entitlements, along with local benefits and education services; these costs are not offset.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2577134

This is INSANE

 

Amen!

 

No, I have not advocated that. I don't mind the refugees entering Europe and even the United States. Here's my problem with what Europe has done.

First, by far my biggest complaint is that the Syrian Civil War has been used as a pretext to dramatically increase Middle Eastern immigration in general. I rarely hear the term "refugee" anymore. The term I hear almost exclusively is "migrant." Why? Because a huge number of those coming to Europe are not refugees. They are people leaving areas other than Syria (especially North Africa which is nowhere near Syria) who are exploiting the Syrian Civil War to come to Europe.

Second, rather than letting true refugees enter Europe in an orderly fashion, Merkel invited a free for all. And the whole continent is paying the price.

Third, there's no mechanism in place to maintain security of the local people. Rather than letting them go where they want, they should be at secured locations where they can be fed, given proper medical care, etc. Furthermore, they should be returned to their countries of origin after hostilities end. Nothing is in place to do that.

Fourth, I don't like the use of censorship to suppress skepticism and negative stories about the government's policy. That's dangerous. I also don't like the race and Islamophobia cards deployed in the discussion. When there are multiple terrorist attacks within a few months, the public has good reason to be afraid. They aren't irrational (necessary to constitute a phobia) nor are they hateful.

And yes, the terrorism and the migrant issues are related even if the terrorist attacks are mostly being committed by EU citizens. Why? Because those EU citizens are the products of yesteryear's migrants, and tomorrow's terrorists will be the products if today's migrants if they aren't returned or at least assimilated. And if yesteryear's migrants weren't assimilated, an even more politically correct and guilt ridden Europe is far less likely to assimilate current migrants.

Fifth, no serious plan was made to secure the borders. The entire continent's security relied upon Greece. They don't give a crap, because they know the migrants are just passing through, so they don't even try. Furthermore, it isn't fair to burden one country with such a responsibility for an entire continent. They all need to help, and they need to suspend the Schengen Agreement at least temporarily.

Finally, the willingness to accept able-bodied men makes the situation in Syria worse, because they should be part of the force to defeat ISIS. Let's grant refuge to women, children, the elderly, and disabled. However, if able-bodied Syrian and Iraqi men don't have the responsibility to fight the bad guys, then who the hell does??

 

I heard on the radio yesterday that 6% of Belgium's population either are muslim immigrants or are children of muslim immigrants. That's a bunch.

That neighborhood in Brussels, Molenbeek St. Jean, where they were searching for the mastermind of the Paris attack, is known as the terrorist capital of Europe. A French journalist suggested they should bomb Molenbeek St. Jean instead of Iraq if they want to kill ISIS terrorists.

In short, the barbarians aren't at the gate, they're inside the gate. Some European countries are talking about canceling plans to turn out the lights on Earth Day. They fear the crime wave that could result. Can you imagine the number of gropings that could happen in Germany if the lights went out?

This doesn't bode well for the Western Europe that we've known going forward.

 

Run away if you see this kid walking towards you
-- 19 year old Mormon who was injured in Belgium, but was also in Boston for that bombing and Paris during those attacks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-surviving-Boston-bombing-Paris-attacks.html

 

There is a stat floating around the webz that shows one in 4 French teens is muslim.
That should scare the heck of out the French people.

Here is USA we are letting in every Abdul Mohammed and Ameera who simply say they fear persecution. AND if they lie and say they came here before 2014 it is even easier. Add in the number coming from Central America and you just have to shake your head at how stupid we are. WHO pays for this? What future generation are we saddling with this debt? Great great grandkids?


http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/right...er-Investigate-Asylum-Seekers-GAO-Reports.htm

But let's call Trump and Cruz bigots for wanting to get a handle on this.

 

Wonder how long will folks will "bitterly cling" to the Open Borders idea?

 

Come on JF, you know we have better ways to vet the terrorists/migrants because we know no one would EVER lie or have fake docs
so our situation isn't exactly open borders
well except for the people sneaking in
and for the people claiming asylum.

 

I recently reconnected on Facebook with a good friend from elementary school, whom I haven't seen since 1991. I learned that he and his wife have been Christian missionaries to Morocco and Egypt for about ten years, and they have recently been called to Paris for the specific purpose of reaching out to the Muslim community. (Link.) He says there are almost 2 million Muslims in the Paris area alone. That is scary, but frankly it's inspiring to hear him talk about it. I'd be scared to death to do what he does, but I sense absolutely no fear in him at all. In light of what he does and his approach to it, I've decided to give him a little money on a regular basis to help.

 

Wow MrD
Do your friends talk about their Christianity to muslims? That is amazing. I would think they are in more danger in Paris among the muslims than they were in Egypt or Morroco.
In addition to money a prayer or two could help.