'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Namewithheld, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    So are you familiar with the concepts of "circle of influence" and "circle of concern"?

    You think the pooh bear in charge of China gives a Damn about how I feel about the environmental damage being done by his country?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  2. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    DD74AAA5-1BB1-4733-900F-F0655F9E065C.jpeg
     
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  3. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    It’s a dishonest argument to ***** about straws here when the problem is in Asia.
     
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  4. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    There is an environmental benefit to paper and reusable straws, so it's not dishonest. It's not a big polluter, but it's something I can impact. I have no influence on Chinese power plants.
     
  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Half of seeming clever is keeping your mouth shut.

    Croc
    Very sad to read.
     
  6. 4th_floor

    4th_floor 1,000+ Posts

    The benefit is debatable. What damage to the environment occurs in the manufacture of paper straws? Reusable straws only work if you bring your own. Who's going to do that?

    Plus it really sucks to use a paper straw. (pun intended) I hate them.
     
  7. 4th_floor

    4th_floor 1,000+ Posts

    Sorry about your friends. But I doubt a coal or nuclear power plant caused their cancer.
     
  8. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    More likely pollution from a nearby highway. Most people don’t realize there is a plume of microdust emanating from the road surface due to the tires hitting the pavement. Even 100% electric cars would have this problem. Lung pollution for non-smokers has been correlated with roads and urbanization, not power plants (if I recall).
     
  9. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    mchammer, that is very interesting. Real analysis usually shows causes that don't fit a popular narrative. It also usually shows some very specific cause that no one is prepared to change.
     
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  10. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    It's been a few years, but the Dallas Observer reported lung cancer danger to cement plants around Midlothian that prospered under protection of Smoky Joe. But while we can correlate cancer stats to specific air quality issues, we can't really prove cause and effect.
     
  11. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Or a cause where there are no deep pockets, so the lawyers are nowhere to be found.
     
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  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Of course, but we constantly hear that the environment is a global concern. That's why people outside of Sweden are willing to sit and be lectured by Greta Thunberg. What happens in China impacts everybody, and the global community can impact China. This is a country that is strong almost entirely because of global trade.

    He certainly won't give a damn if you don't complain about him. However, if you influence your country and the UN to impose economic sanctions on him, he sure as hell will.

    It's not dishonest. It's just grossly overblown. It's like telling someone they can improve their health by drinking bottled water. The effect will be nominal at best. Unless you drive that straw to the ocean and throw it in, there's almost zero chance of it ever getting into the ocean, because we generally don't dispose of garbage by throwing it into the ocean.

    Banning plastic straws won't do much more than wearing a ribbon will cure AIDS or breast cancer. Calling your congressman and telling him to impose sanctions on China unless they stop dumping plastic trash into the oceans will do far more. But that's not sexy and doesn't create a virtue signalling opportunity.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  13. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Under real analysis most of these claims turn out to be complete ********. A cement plant 10 miles away doesn't emit enough of anything to effect you anymore than something 200 miles away.
     
  14. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Are you familiar with the concept of Pareto charts, Crockett?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  15. 4th_floor

    4th_floor 1,000+ Posts

    I'm very familiar with this. About 25 years ago, I audited one of the Midlothian cement plants since a former employer used to send waste to the cement plant for destruction. A cement kiln is ideal for destroying many waste streams because there is very high temperature (~3000 F), oxygen, and most metals become a part of the product.
    The "air quality issues" were not based on any measurement of emissions. It was based on the fact that hazardous waste was burned in the kiln. So the uneducated public, stirred up by democrat party politicians, blamed any death - 80+ year old grandma, dogs, cattle, etc. - on the kiln. One local rancher supposedly had a calf born with two or three heads - although I never saw a picture or any proof of that. He sued the cement kiln. I believe the case was dismissed because there was no case.
    I believe the kiln no longer takes waste. They got tired of fighting the ******** and baseless law suits. It's a shame from an economic and environmental standpoint IMHO.
     
  16. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

  17. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, a few years ago my company switched to sending haz waste to Oklahoma to be incinerated, likely because of this (just connected the dots). Interestingly, we changed the process somewhat, did a better job at analysis, and viola the waste is no longer considered hazardous. I think we still send it to the same place for incineration but it is cheaper to do so now.
     
  18. humahuma

    humahuma 250+ Posts

    Mc I have some listed waste if you want it. Actually it’s going for incineration.
     
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  19. humahuma

    humahuma 250+ Posts

    Inside joke with Hazardous Waste, there are No regulations which have changed since 2016. I have environmental responsibilities for the Gulf Coast for a Chemical company.
     
  20. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    I still don’t get it.
     
  21. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    "Not being built" does not equal "The problem is that no investment has been made until recently to continue to improve the process for efficiency and safety."
     
  22. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    True.

    Also, had US investment in mind and investment in non-military, electrical power industry style reactors. I have seen some movement recently, which seems like evidence that some investment and research has been made recently, which is why I qualified my comment "until recently".

    Maybe that is inaccurate but I have yet to see evidence of that so far.
     
  23. militaryhorn

    militaryhorn Cocky & Relaxed Like Dionysus

    20200227_025259.jpg
     
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  24. Chop

    Chop 2,500+ Posts

    A couple of days ago, when it was still February, we got our first May fly of the season. That’s MAY fly—in February. Must be global warming, errr I mean climate change. :rolleyes1:
     
  25. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 1,000+ Posts

    It difficult to argue with that reasoning.
     
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

    Nuclear Power: Progressives Should Reconsider Their Opposition | National Review

    This is what I was talking about earlier. There have been barriers to nuclear development that have only recently been lifted.
     
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  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 2,500+ Posts

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  28. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Quick recovery for your girl
    She probably yelled and scared it away

    [​IMG]
     
  29. AC

    AC 1,000+ Posts

    How dare you!
     
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  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    How do we type that with an accent?
    It's not the same without the angry accent
     
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