Is this what we've become?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by I35, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Is this the vision we wanted for America? When you push for division and instigate things for political reasons, this is what happens. Our country is a mess right now. We are divided more than we ever have. Terrorist acts are the norm now. The police have been made into the bad guys. Now they are being shot while trying to protect the community in Dallas Texas. Corruption with our leaders with zero consequences. I don't know about you guys, but this is all sickening. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
     
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  2. Hollandtx

    Hollandtx 250+ Posts

    I saw this happen live while I was watching Fox News. It is a sickening day.
    I can't help but believe that all the condemnation and assertions that the 2 black men wouldn't have been killed if they were white helped fan the flames of this new violence. Dallas is my hometown. It's where I grew up.
    I can't believe this has happened. I guess I have been a fool over my lifetime as I thought that racial relations had improved significantly, especially in the last 20 years or so.

    Yes, there are some bad guys who wear a uniform, and they should be disciplined and weeded out.
    But, no matter how you feel, this incident goes beyond the pale.
    The press, who reports things in such a one-sided manner, have blood on their hands.
    Toni Morrison, (Nobel-winning author and Professor Emeritus at Harvard) you said this in 2015:
    “People keep saying, ‘We need to have a conversation about race,’” Morrison told The Telegraph.
    “This is the conversation. I want to see a cop shoot a white unarmed teenager in the back,” she said. “

    Well, it wasn't an unarmed white teen, it was policemen protecting the very people who protest against them and call them racists. Are you happy?
    What will Obama say about this tomorrow?
    I hate to even type this, but I hope this is a terrorist attack rather than a supposed "eye for an eye" type of justice.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  3. uisge beatha

    uisge beatha 1,000+ Posts

    Wow, couldn't leave out your hatred of Obama out of something not even related
     
  4. Hollandtx

    Hollandtx 250+ Posts

    Defensive much? Why do you assume I hate Obama?
    I'm honestly curious to see how he responds to the situation as our President.
    Words matter. Headlines matter. Statements matter.
    If what happened in Dallas doesn't prove it, nothing will.
     
  5. uisge beatha

    uisge beatha 1,000+ Posts

    Me? Defensive? Not really. I'm about as apolitical as they come (wouldn't of even seen this thread id it hadn't shown up on the main page). Just seems you're ready to jump as eager as a salivating dog.
     
  6. Hollandtx

    Hollandtx 250+ Posts

    Um, no. Heartbroken, angry and shaken, but not "eager" in any way.
    That is a pretty rude thing to say, and after re-reading my comment I don't see how you can think I'm eager and salivating at anything.
    I don't like the wedge that seems to have been driven between the races over the past several years...but I don't hold Obama responsible. I think much of it is due to how events are reported by the media.

    At this point, I wonder if it is indeed an act of terror by ISIS, as I thought very briefly at first. It seems very coordinated, and there is talk of bombs planted all over downtown Dallas.
    Are you comfortable with how I have stated that, or are you going to jump to another asinine assumption...maybe next time you should just move along, being as you are so apolitical and all.
     
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  7. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    The Justice Department has made it a policy (and a failed one) to reform police departments under the guise that doing so will somehow help cure the African American crime/social problem. The policy is like breaking the thermometer because the room is hot. However, it's not Obama's fault. He's just picking the cotton for Bill Ayers:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...vil-rights-crusade-against-police-departments
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  8. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    If you look at the front page of Yahoo right now, you'll see these banner stories (even though the Dallas event has happened):

    Beyoncé to police: "Stop killing us."
    Philando Castille's mom: "We are being hunted".
    Actress (Mischa Barton) responds to Alton Sterling’s Death With... a Yacht Instagram? - posts dopey photo of herself looking hot in a bikini.

    Then on down the page there's these threads:

    officials name two Baton Rouge cops tied to killings (I guess so haters can go harass their families).
    On mothering sons to know #BlackLivesMatter.
    California gang members arrested in attacks targeting blacks

    ... and on and on and on

    The media, the main stream media, has created an atmosphere wherein blacks think that they are being targeted by the police and white people?? Is it any wonder that the events in Dallas were inevitable?
     
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  9. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    I agree with you on this one Clean. I saw that Beyonce quote and it disgusted me. I hate hypocrisy no matter where it comes from. Of course there are some bad cops out there (like any other profession), but there are far too many more who put their lives on the line to protect us every day and they need support.
     
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  10. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    This is totally related to Obama and every other public figure who immediately speak out for BLM over the police. Just yesterday, HRC sent out hashtag for BLM on a shooting she has no information on. Maybe, just maybe, they could all wait for an investigation and potential trial before assessing guilt on police officers.
     
  11. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    This is the kind of crap people are sick of. A typical response to try to silence anybody from speaking out on what is the obvious truth. We are divided so far from where we came from before BHO. He and the other leaders in their party have been using this as a political angle to try to fire up their base that's now showing to be lives lost. I would have never dreamed in my life time that the police would be made out to be the bad guys. Yes there are a very small few police that make bad decisions. But they don't wake up that morning and say, "I'm going to kill a black guy to day and ruin my life". Then the left media runs with it. Do you really think politics and the media has nothing to do with this attitude now? THIS IS NOT OK!!!!
     
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  12. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    We're not going to be able to hate our way out of this one. Look, it's a proper response to be angry and heartbroken when people get killed for no good reason, whether he be a black concealed carry permit holder driving with a malfunctioning tail light or police officers protecting protesters. Is it too much to ask that we have empathy for people in a community who feel especially vulnerable to police and honorable, good-hearted police officers who deal with difficult insulting people all the time and quite rightly want to get home safely with their families? When we start choosing sides here, we're creating a can't win battle.
     
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  13. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I know that's the FOX news narrative. But I saw video of the two shootings that sparked the protest and I was angry and heartbroken, doesn't really matter what self-serving prattle politicians utter.

    I think the idea that public officials will listen and care about the concerns of BLM lessens the anger. I contend it's the people who have no interest or empathy for blacks being killed by police that set off the outrage and the killings. You think black people weren't aware and didn't care about people in their community being gunned down by police before President Obama started talking about it? You ever met a black person or do you just see them on the news?
     
  14. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Fox News narrative? As a liberal, you can continue to bury your head in the sand and not face the reality of the environment Obama has created. It is the result of Obama and BLM immediately assuming police were at fault for the shootings and that they were racially motivated. It is Houston Texan players tweeting racial attacks or Beyonce floating out her bigoted tweets. And don't leave out Democrats highjacking the Comey hearing yesterday to indict police. Hate will not solve it, but ignorance will not either.
     
  15. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    So theiisoftx, it's not the black people being shot by cops for little good reason that's the problem? It's politicians complaining about black people being shot by cops that is the problem? What sandpile do you have your head in and are you recommending it for the BLM people?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  16. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    Here is my narrative and it is not about forgiving murderers... it is related to the underlying problem and what happens in your heart when you see someone of a different color.

    Sometimes, you can't love your neighbor because it's a very high standard that has been asked of us. For some reason it is so much easier to hate them; to wish that they get what they deserve. But outside love and forgiveness there is another place; acceptance. And to accept someone is not only that they are who they are but that it may be that you will always have an uneasy or superficial relationship with them because your differences are so pronounced. But that is ok. It is ok if you do not hurt them in any way. It is ok if you help them if they need your help. It is ok if you treat them as you might a stranger when holding the door for them as they enter a building. With decency and civility. But escalating the tension is never the answer.

    Forgiving someone who hurt you or your family can almost be as much a miracle as walking on water. It is holy forgiveness. And to love your enemy is even more of a miracle because not only are you walking on water, you are possibly raising the dead. And these laws of physics that we all accept to be true are as sure a fact as our belief that we cannot love our enemy or even forgive them. But should we give up on the idea? Is the only alternative to our inability to love our enemy is to kill them?

    NO

    NEVER

    EVER

    The only way to love someone is to prioritize the feeling. The only way to forgive them is to understand that forgiveness can mean withdrawing from the battlefield. To soften your opinion of them means that you have decided to understand their point of view. And to understand their point of view is to be honest with yourself. How would you feel? And to love them is to see their entire being and know that the stress in their life may be so much greater than your own, that they are only human and if not for the grace of God there you will go.

    Forgiveness like a diet is a process and though things may not ever be as they were they will be better than they are now. If only you will begin. Identify what must be done. See the goal. Take small steps; I don't want to injure someone. More steps; I will withdraw from engagement. More steps; I will establish what is important and why. More steps; I will do what is humanly possible. More steps; I will accept what I must and regain my moral compass. More steps; I will live my life and though I will remember, I will try to smile again; I will not hurt them; I will not take my revenge.

    Whatever the problem may be we must dedicate ourselves to the proposition that we owe a dying man the decency of investigating the manner of his death; and if it is his fault then we must accept that truth; and if it wasn't then we must act on that truth without regard to who is at fault. There is no person who is more important than the right to life given to our fellow man.


    "Father, father
    We don't need to escalate
    You see, war is not the answer
    For only love can conquer hate
    You know we've got to find a way
    To bring some lovin' here today, oh oh oh"

    Marvin Gaye

    "If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.

    Nelson Mandela

    "People respond in accordance to how you relate to them. If you approach them on the basis of violence, that's how they'll react. But if you say, 'We want peace, we want stability,' we can then do a lot of things that will contribute towards the progress of our society."

    Nelson Mandela

    "Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."

    Martin Luther King Jr.

    "Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars... Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

    Martin Luther King Jr.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  17. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Obama absolutely went on a race crusade from the word go. He's cherry-picked countless incidents that supported his agenda while paying little mind to equal or greater atrocities that didn't.

    Trayvon Martin? Really? There are 1,000's of fights that end with a shooting death between all races every year.

    Without any facts, somehow this kid could be his son and became his political hot-button case to claim innocent blacks are being gunned down in the streets just for their looks and race.

    Too bad they found out a little later the shooter was also a minority and then found innocent. Few took sides when first learning of the incident and then Obama backed Martin and the media slammed the racial hate narrative down the public's throats until everyone had to choose.

    We barely hear a peep about the absurd slaughter within black communities as there's no racial component to expose with black on black killings.

    HRC still campaigns with leaders of BLM, the parents of Michael Brown and a few others whose dead children were legally proven as criminals at fault in police attacks.

    The Lib media pounced on the "racist hate is overwhelming America" narrative set at the top and many decent people on all sides were forced to defend their own kind.

    It's clear as day yet many on the left will vehemently dispute these facts and bury their head in the sand all in the name of supporting their gang leader in chief.

    I'm proud to live in SE TX where people of all races interact daily with little awkwardness or second thought about the color of the person next to them.

    It's truly sad to watch much of the country rot to divisive racist hell while I see kindness and acceptance every single day of my life.

    Pretending this super-charged racial division in America today is not a direct result of Obama's divisive leadership and racism crusade is shameful.
     
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  18. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Dig a little deeper into the problem, Crockett.
     
  19. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I did not say that was the problem. What I did state is that when Obama, celebrities and professional athletes tweet that there is an automatic injustice before they know the facts, you can expect an incident against police to happen.

    Colin Kaepernick called the incidence in Baton Rouge a "lynching." BLM uses Mike Brown as their poster child. A man who assaulted a store owner and assaulted a police officer that resulted in his death. The incident was investigated by the Obama justice department and the officer was cleared of all wrong doing.

    BLM can pull their head out of that sandpile first. In almost every instance, there is one consistent fact - resisting arrest or at least failing to follow a police officer's orders.

    And before you throw in South Carolina or some other case where the officer was clearly wrong, yes it does happen. However, it happens to all races.
     
  20. bystander

    bystander 5,000+ Posts

    I will say this; this morning Art Acevedo gave a very impassioned comment on the radio about all of this. One thing he said which I believe is relevant to the inflammatory comments made in the media is that (his words), "Hands Up Don't Shoot" never happened. He said that the DOJ under Holder made that determination. He said it is counter-productive (a mild way of putting it) for anyone to use that phrase because it is false. But anyone who does use that phrase is inflaming people about something that did not happen.

    For whatever it is worth.

    And my comments in the post above are in the vein of everyone not using falsehoods and emotion to make themselves feel better because the nut-jobs will act upon these public exclamations.
     
  21. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    George Zimmeman was a bully and a horrible neighborhood watch captain, but his acquittal followed the law. In Ferguson, the police officer was justified in using force and I feel terribly that he was thrust in the middle of this controversy. But the BLM, for all it's excesses and misinformation it disseminates is focused on an issue of legit public concern. Too many people get killed by police and some really egregious examples are caught on camera and circulate in the social media. To blame it all on Obama, who has never called for violence, is just another way for people to tribablize and trivialize issues that deserve real empathetic dialogue and understanding.
     
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  22. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    That is just it. They are not focused on an issue of legit public concern. They are only focused on blaming everything on race. Witness the outrage when O'Malley said "all lives matter." Obama and liberals only fan the flames.
     
  23. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    The thing that is misunderstood, willfully a lot of the time, is that BLM knows that the lives of police officers, suburban white people, etc. matter to most of us ... that has never been in dispute. What they are trying to communicate is that the lives of young black men matter too. It's a message that needs to resonate in a community where civilian violence far outstrips police violence and bad/dangerous decisions that take lives occur far too often. It's a message that Michael Ferguson and Trayvon Martin needed to understand before putting their lives at risk.
     
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  24. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    The inflammatory rhetoric is the root of horrible actions such as this. In the race to get attention to real issues leaders and followers need to realize that words matter. That applies to BLM leaders, Obama, and Brad Austin. All sides of the political spectrum do this. It seems the tactics and the sensationalizing "facts" has reached an all-time high. Whether the issue is racial (Black), religious (Muslim) or abortion related (See Colorado Springs attack) is the rhetoric that needs to be toned down.

    There are real issues at play here. Black crime, incarceration and deaths is a major problem. Our justice system is disproportionately harsh with black males. Some of this they most certainly bring on themselves. I firmly believe that police are also doing the best job they can. Still, we have to turn around the narrative of police vs. the poor (primarily black). They've done it in LA of all places. It took the Rodney King riots for them to be pushed in that direction.

    Overall, we need to use more tempered language when discussing these serious issues. Inflammatory language only spurs on crazies like Michael X. Johnson.

    Is it too soon to talk about whether this person should have had a gun? :p;)
     
  25. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    The BLM didn't want to water down their message which is why they responded the way they did. I'd wager nearly all of them think all lives matter. Non-blacks simply aren't seeing the violence that blacks are whether due to police OR black on black crime. In the inner-city, being black is dangerous to one's health. That's a real problem.
     
  26. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    The response isn't about Obama, but about the comment about "never calling for violence." I don't think that the calls for violence (deplorable as they are) are the issue right now. The issue is that now more than ever, there appears to be more and more tension, suspicion and fear between the black community and the police. It's always been there, clearly. And maybe it's just more evident now and more people are speaking out, as opposed to the tension level being elevated. I would say that the increase in incidents would seem to indicate that this problem is not just becoming more visible; it is becoming worse.

    When police hear rhetoric about killing cops, they take that personally, and it cannot help but impact how they view the next person that they are tasked with pulling over or interacting with in some way. Most of them still do their job well, but clearly there are some who are working scared, and that can't happen.

    On the other hand though, I don't think there are a lot of black people who are hearing "kill cops" rhetoric and saying "yeah! i'm gonna go do that." What I believe they may be responding to more and more is first, the growing tendency to blame cops first when an issue arises. There's some boldness that grows out of the idea that you've got "the people" on your side. (Even if your side doesn't make any sense or is illegal.) Two - and I'm starting to think this is a real factor - they're really believing that when they get pulled over, the cop is looking for an excuse to kill them. So when the cop tells that person to get out of the car or put themselves in a submissive position, I wonder how many of them are thinking "this guy may kill me." And so they run, or they attack, or they simply refuse to comply. And we get people killed for no reason other than suspicion and fear.

    That is the issue. When the media and the president put out a steady stream of "my son could get gunned down by a cop any day for doing nothing," that has an impact. In the vast majority of these situations, the person involved has very clearly not been walking along minding his own business. But the hyperbole makes it seem as if black youths are literally being stalked and killed by the police.

    Until that narrative goes away (Beyonce, looking at you and not in the way that you're trying for), this is going to get worse.
     
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  27. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    BINGO! We have a winner!
    How do they bring it on themselves? How can that problem be changed? Same old problem, no new answers. Why don't other cultures have this problem?
     
  28. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    What if we direct our over-the-top rhetoric at the removal of confederate memorials, statues and flags that have been there for decades? Will that end the violence? I was told such things were responsible for lone wolves.
     
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  29. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Yes, I heard that the audience for BLM is really the black community although most whites think it is about policing (with good reasons).
     
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  30. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    That's not the only answer but to solve the problem all influences need to be on the table. Police training and strategy is also a solution. In LA, the inner city cops live in the inner city communities, coach youth football and generally are from these troubled communities. Compare that to Ferguson where a department of 65 had 4 black officers and virtually none of them live in Ferguson, a 60% black community.

    I'd challenge the idea that this does exist in other cultures albeit on a smaller scale. Look no further to the Hispanic community and Sheriff Joe Arpaio as an example.
     

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