Less With More

Question: Do we do less with more, while several others do more with less?

I'll answer first....YES.

 

Yes. Coach Aston has struggled this year against teams with comparable talent but who’s doing more with less?

 

TCU
OSU
BU
and normally WVU, OU, ISU and KSU.
Other than BU, the mere fact that these teams typically even challenge us with the huge gap in their talent from ours is "doing more with less." Just sayin... not impressed with our lack of development of our talent. Ariel and Brooke have been exceptions. Lashaan has come along nicely too THIS year.

 

Absolutely.

Usually Iowa State does more with less. This year, it's West Virginia, without Tynice Martin, they're still winning more games than last year.

 

IMO for the most part player development is player driven. Does the coach have to run a system that fits a players ability, yes. But at the end of the day the ability to get better falls on the player.

 

I agree to a certain extent, as Brooke and Ariel are examples of the gym rat effect and I have the utmost admiration for that.

However, I look at Baylor and how they have developed one star post player after another, after another, after another, after another.... one star point guard after another, after another, after another, after another, after another.... and it makes us look pretty deficient in the area of player development.

Then take the fact that Baylor is far less talented than us this year yet they kicked our butts all over the court. Coaches can't do it all, at some point players have to accept accountability as well.

But the things we struggle with year in and year out (regardless of personnel) and the lack of development in our highly-touted freshman classes fall at the feet of the coach.

 

I certainly don't see us as having more talent than Baylor. Do you blame the coach for not coaching them up or the recruiting services for over-ranking them? I guess you can blame the coach for recruiting them in the first place. We do seem to try to recruit a lot of great shooters but don't seem to be able to get them to sign on the dotted line. Maybe Karen's strategy is to recruit great defensive players that couldn't hit the Erwin center with a sniper rifle standing 50 ft away, and that's never going to look like good coaching even if those players can generate enough offense to win most of their games. I'm not saying that's a good strategy either, but I just don't think I can say Karen has done a poor job of coaching them up when I just don't see much talent in a number of players. I think Brooke and Ariel have been overachievers.

Regardless of stats, I saw multiple players come from the Baylor bench that showed me more pure talent than our bench. Honestly Sug is the only one that can come off the bench and not cause a significant drop off in talent. Maybe if Joyner could up to speed that will change, but not now. And speaking of, we thought we got the much better player when we got Joyner over Cox, but I don't think anyone would argue Cox not being the more talented player and that isn't going to change unless Joyner improves her shooting TREMENDOUSLY.

 

Baylor has DEVELOPED their talent... we have not.

 

Please name all the these great post players that Baylor has developed. Baylor’s most talented post player ever didn’t really develop. Although they have had quality some quality point guard play. I think Run Pincher is on to something in terms of recruiting services over ranking recruits. But I also think that opportunity also plays in to it as well. Lashaan has improved her game and will be and should be an all conference player this year. And she will put up even better numbers next year when she’s carrying much more of the load next year.

Sug, and Chasity will also be really good next year with a lot more playing time and opportunity next year. From a pure talent standpoint I still think that Joyner is better than Lauren Cox. Although Joyner improving her jump shot will be very important. The obvious area where I think Lauren Cox is better than Joyner is her motor and that’s obviously a very important area.

 

I dont think this is true at all. I cant think of anyone that left there better than when they arrived. I will say that she does the most with the talent that she acquires

 

I do not agree at all with you brnkj that "Baylor is far less talented than us this year." Morris, Richards, Landrum, and Ursin were all considered highly regarded recruits. What's the difference if someone is ranked 3rd or 5th, for example? Rankings are highly subjective. I saw some tape of Morris a long time ago and realized she had tremendous potential, regardless of how she was "ranked," and she was ranked high. As to posts, Brown and Cox are great. It doesn't hurt to have 3 to 4 extra inches on our posts (Brown) and bigger bodies (Cox). Talking about player development, if you compare Ariel and Brooke to how they played as freshmen, there is a huge amount of development (Brooke's shooting issues set aside). Shame that Joyner had to be out so long, but there were some great flashes Saturday. The thing about us having 10 Mc. AA's is a red herring. Not all AA's are created equal. I think there is still a big luck factor in how players develop. Next year, I believe Baylor will have 9 AA's, so we won't be able to say that they are bringing in unknowns and developing them.

 

Again...they develop theirs. We don't.

 

I think some posters just like to complain for the sake of complaining. Yes, we had a horrible game against Baylor. Guess what? Notre Dame had horrible game at Louisville; they then went on to fight through a huge comeback win against Tennessee and won in dominating fashion at Florida State who had recently won at Louisville.

As for TCU, they have yet to make the NCAA tourney under their new head coach. And, while they do annually get a good win against a quality opponent, they are certainly not consistent. They lost at home to Yale and at Kansas this season; is that doing more with less? Not in my book.

 

Again... the whole point of this thread is being skewed by rose-colored glasses. I never said those other teams (other than BU) were FINISHING THE SEASON better than us. What they ARE doing is taking a far less group of talent, developing them and putting in game schemes that favor their strengths and minimize exposure to their weaknesses, and competing with and sometimes defeating us. Our staff has done an incredible job of bringing in talent, but the bottom line is they need to step up their game with x's and o's and stop pigeon-holing players with outdated, one-dimensional schemes on both sides of the basketball. If they don't, a solid reputation for squandering talent will be firmly established. Recruiting will become more difficult once that occurs.
#flashback!

 

I'm all for any improvement with X's and O's, but, just for the sake of argument, where do you get that Baylor has a "far less group of talent?" Specifics, please.

 

I agree. I’ve said since Coach Aston has been at Texas that she needs to improve herself as a coach in terms of x’s and o’s. Or she needs to go out and hire an assistant coach that can improve the team in terms of x’s and o’s. Coach Aston needs to improve as an in game coach overall IMO.

 

I think everyone agrees we could improve X's and O's coaching, but no way I buy any argument saying we have far more talent than Baylor.

I'll also add I'm glad we don't have that despicable human being as coach no matter how good of a coach she is.

 

Look at the individual skill sets, athleticism, and upside potential that our roster of players had coming out of HS and compare that to BU's. Theirs, overall, does not compare to ours... yet they have developed theirs into more productive players than we have and have KICKED OUR ASSES with them. Look at what they graduated last year and what we have returning...the skills of their current crop of freshman and ours... they've played and developed theirs and we haven't. I'm sorry... they do a better job with their kids than we do.

 

Griner is obviously the greatest player to come out of the Sea Hag's program. The first time I saw her play as a Freshman, my jaw hit the floor. It was like Lebron as an 18 year old rookie in the NBA. The best player on the floor. When she was a senior, she was still the most dominant force I had seen (a tall Clarissa). The development was player driven. Not coach or system driven.

I had a high school coach that won a bunch of state titles who would say, "great talent can always overcome lousy coaching, but great coaching can seldom overcome lousy talent". He wasn't just talking about basketball, for him it was also a life lesson.

FWIW, he would also say "I can teach you how to play defense, shoot the ball and hit free throws. What I can't teach you is height or speed". He always seemed to be looking at me when he said that last part.

 

I still don't know why you think Patterson, Booth, and Littleton have greater skill sets and athleticism than Morris, Richards, and Ursin (am I missing any?) I would like our freshmen to have played more, too. But, except Booth, what we have seen from Patterson and Littleton has been problematic. No one seems to know the story of Booth, but it seemed like she was about to start getting meaningful minutes when she stopped getting any minutes at all or traveling with the team. Mulkey barely plays Ursin at all. Does that mean she is not developing her talent? In the last interview I saw with KA, she said she would like to play the freshmen more, but I got the idea they weren't yet where they need to be. Of course, Destiny has been injured and Patterson recently sick. I do agree that they all should have gotten more minutes in those early games against easy teams. I think with freshmen, you don't really know what you're going to get until they set foot on campus.

 

And Mulkey didn’t do a very good job at all with Griner. The scary thing is that she would have been even better if she played for a coach like Geno.

 

THIS. Freshmen need to take note. Just posted it here because of all the banter back and forth about the thread title. Honestly, I wish this thread never happened.

"It's really easy to come in and realize they don't need me so I'm not even going to try," said Williams, a native of Sparks, Nevada. "I see a lot of freshmen go through that now and I wish I could just shake it out of them because I never shook it out of myself. I think I would have had a better start to my career if I had owned up to what I could do."

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-...ng-touches-stellar-connecticut-huskies-career

 

Thanks, jusme, Excellent article about Gabby that illustrates not all frosh have the opportunity or have the team need them to play a lot of minutes their frosh year.

 

Great article. Thanks for posting. It's way too early to judge our freshman class. I still believe they have exceptional talent and will get their chance to shine. After Lauren Cox's first year at Baylor, I thought she was overrated as the #1 recruit in her class. Now she seems to be having a great sophomore season (unfortunately).

Hopefully, our players and our coaches will learn and grow from the ups and downs of this season.

 

She would have been better playing for the Attack Poodle in Norman. The SH did nothing to develop Griner, which she pointed out repeatedly in her book. I loved watching her play (other teams), because she was so intense, pushed her team mates to be better and was so damn court smart. She knew the game is won and lost below the rim, she just happened to be above it.

"A kid. A ball. A dream".
John R. Wooden

 

I also do not see this huge talent gap as a "fact".

 

We don't see a huge talent gap because ours has NOT BEEN DEVELOPED. Baylor has DEVELOPED theirs into better players than ours. Either you folks don't know crap about athletics or you're a bunch of KA's sunshine pumpers. Sorry, she is an awesome recruiter but that's as far as it goes... she's probably the weakest coach in the Big 12. Give our team to any other coach in the conference (don't know about Tech) and we'd be way better.

 

As I stated, I certainly don’t think Coach Aston is a great coach and needs to improve and this team should never struggle with teams like TCU or Kansas but there’s no way that Texas has more talent than Baylor I don’t care who’s coaching the team. And if you believe that you need to put down your pipe.

 

Even Kim Mulkey herself stated that Texas has the most talent and depth in the league. I guess she and I are smoking the same thing... I'll take that being that she's ONLY won countless conference championships and a couple of big dances as well, all the while kicking our butts repeatedly along the way. I'll keep puffing, and you keep drinking your IDIOT juice. How 'bout that?

 

Alright, already. Go to the Baylor message board if you want to slobber all over Mulkey and her players. Gees.