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Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by Aces_Full, May 17, 2010.
Dirk is a good defensive rebounder but he sucks as an offensive rebounder. He's in the top 10, but not the top 5. People calling him soft or a coward are clueless. He is what he is. A complete nightmare to guard, and a decent but not great defender.
Notice the Spurs will rarely if ever put Duncan on him because they know Duncan can't cover Dirk and they can't risk the foul trouble. I'd take him on my team every time, but he's asked to do too much in Dallas. Put him on the Lakers with Kobe instead of Gasol and they are as good or better. He's not going to win a championship by himself, but neither is Wade, James, and the list goes on. Outside of Jordan, most championship teams have more then one superstar.
The only knock on Dirk is that his teams have often lost in the playoffs very early on and in some cases they haven't equalled or exceeded the expectations based on the talent on their team.
Based on this year and past performances I would have to rank Nash above Dirk.
Why would the Spurs ask Duncan to cover Dirk? He plays on the perimeter. That's ******* stupid. Of course he isn't asked to cover Dirk. Just like he isn't asked to cover a point guard. A better question is why doesn't Dirk guard Duncan in the post? They are similar in height and build, but Dirk is too soft to defend in the post, that's why.
Also, Dirk sucks because he rarely provides help defense, and whines more than my 8 month old.
I agree with Nuclear Bear (despite my disdain for the Mavs). Right now, Durant is not a top 3 player. If I'm playing a game tonight and my life depends on it, I'm taking Kobe, Wade, Lebron (in that order) and maybe a few others to build around before I take KD. Durant's time will come as he continues to grow as a player and earn his playoff chops (as every NBA great has had to do).
If we're talking current trade value, then KD is definitely in the top 3. Most GM's would swap anyone not named Lebron/Kobe for Durant, considering his age, contract, potential, etc. To me, that doesn't necessarily make him a top 3 player, just a top 3 value...
From a PRODUCTION standpoint, name me 5 players with better numbers than KD this year. Get back to me when you have 5
Tell me which player you'd choose Nucbear?
Player A: Pts: 27 Ast: 5 Reb: 5.4 TO: 3.2 Blk: 0.27 Stl: 1.5 FT%: 81 3pt%: 32 FG%: 45
Player B: Pts: 30 Ast: 2.8 Reb: 7.6 TO: 3.3 Blk: 1 Stl: 1.3 FT%: 90 3pt%: 37 FG%: 47
Without thinking who is who, tell me which player you'd take just based of statistics...ie production.
good work LazyE
Even though i am a Mavs hater, im an objective/realistic fan and i just call it like i see it. And to say that Dirk is even a "decent" defender is almost laughable. Certain positions require more attention to detail on defense and PF is one of them, so average to below average would be how i would describe his defense compared to the rest of the starting PF's in the NBA. Is dirk one of the top 5 best scorers in the league.....sure, i think that would be extremely hard to argue. But top 10 is VERY debatable. I would put him in my top 10 (around 9 or 10) but i could easily see how somebody wouldnt have him in their top 10.
Exactly Statalyzer, which is why I argue that Durant (player B) is in the top 3 in the league right now becuase his numbers are even or slightly better than the public's consensus number 1 player in the League, Kobe (player A).
No matter how you look at it, Durant is PRODUCING at a rate of a top 5 guy in the League. He's doing it on the youngest team in the league and in the hardest conference in the league. I like a lot of guys on the OP's list but it's hard to argue against numbers, production, and what Durant did this year.
For anyone to say he's not in the top 10 is laughable. To say Dirk is better is even more laughable (and I like Dirk's game for the most part).
I never meant to say that dirk wasnt "clutch" but thats clearly how you took it. I was saying he wasnt "the guy", as in he needed a dwade or a Kobe on his team as well. Dirk has made plenty of big shots, im just saying hes not he leader that you claim that he is.
And i never said he was a horrible defender, again with the putting words in my mouth. I said he is an average to below average defender compared to the other starting PF's in the league (and even as a Mav pumper, i dont see how you could argue that point). I say he's not the guy to build your team around, because you dont build your teams around guys that are average defenders but incredible scorers. Those guys are pieces to the puzzle, not the most important piece. Dirk is a top 4 or 5 scorer in this league hands down IMO, but theres no way you can convince me that he is a "decent" defender. No way, i've watch too many mavs games to be fooled into thinking that.
Could it be that Durant's numbers dropped in the playoffs becuase he played vs the Defending Champs and the best defensive team in the league? Are you basing your whole criteria based on 6 playoff games? This was his first playoffs and his team (an 8 seed) pushed the lakers harder than ANYONE including all the expers thought. That isn't "stepping your game up"?
The more you post, the more you just sound like a Mavs homer. You obviously watch a lot of NBA basketball but obviously are more of a FAN than a student of the game. No hard feelings, but I just can't argue with a guy who thinks Chris Paul is better or has done more than KD. CP had ONE good small run in the playoffs. Other than that, he doesnt' done jack ****. Yet you base your entire opinion up to this point of KD on 6 playoff games???
Furthermore, you never answered my question on which player you'd take. Player A or Player B? What's your excuse for why Durant's numbers over 82 games were better than Kobe's?
In reply to:
It wouldn't matter to me where Durant went to school. He would still easily be one of my top five picks.
^^well when you consider the fact that its arguable that CP3 is even the best point guard in his own draft class (Deron Williams comes to mind), your gonna have a tough time convincing me that hes the best point guard to come into the league since Isaiah Thomas. CP3 has had one outstanding year, MVP caliber year, and his other years hes been all star worthy but not what you claim that he is.
And what about Nash, Kidd in his prime, Stockton, Gary Payton in his prime (lockdown defender)..... I can't think of any more right off the top of my head but give me any of those guys over Chris Paul, including Rondo IF (and only if) he maintains what he's done this year and this postseason.
Along with Durant, Chris Paul would be one of my top picks.
I don't know about the best since Isiah Thomas, but IMO he's the best PG in the league now.
Deron Williams is very good, but I'll take Chris Paul on my team.
N motha fuckin B,
and i feel like im debating with somebody that can't read.
The sad thing is, i would probably have to take Dwight Howard as my big man by default. Not that he isn't a great player, particularly on the defensive end. It's just that when one contemplates this position, the dearth of top shelf big men in the NBA really becomes apparent.