QBs

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Pomspoms, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 500+ Posts

    I am sure that I will get some disagreements with this post but I have always felt that two qbs should play every game: the starter and the back up. Going into each game both know they will play. The back up should get a couple of drives in the first half and at least one in the second half. The back up needs the experience to stay sharp so that if he is needed for extensive play he will be ready. The opposing team will have to get ready for two different qbs. I don't think this will hurt team play especially if the backup is competent like in our situation. But even if the backup is a freshman I think he still should play also. This would be good for recruiting also. He has to get experience. I have always believed this. Now that we have the new redshirt rule maybe this is not as necessary. The last four games can be used for experience. But winning the game is the most important goal so I understand the reluctance to do this. I think the quote "if you have two qbs then you have none" is way overrated.:brickwall:
     
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  2. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    So offensive continuity means very little to you. Got it.
     
  3. Dionysus

    Dionysus Ok Cool. Hook ’Em! Admin

    I can’t disagree with @Pomspoms here. Offensive continuity shouldn’t be compromised by getting the backup in there a few times. And if it is, maybe that’s the price for having a backup who’s ready to compete if needed.

    Garret Gilbert in the 2009 title game comes to mind. IIRC he didn’t get many meaningful snaps during the season, and I think that made his job a lot tougher (as if being a true freshman coming into a national title game wasn’t hard enough).
     
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  4. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Oh, I agree that Mack Brown didn't play his backups often enough to get them prepared, should they have to take over suddenly.

    I disagree with the assertion that the backups should always get drives in the first half, etc. Put them in when the game is in hand and let them run the full offense.
     
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  5. I_Dont_Exist

    I_Dont_Exist 1,000+ Posts

    I think the quote "if you have two qbs then you have none" is way overrated.:brickwall:

    I 'd go with idiotic but but that's just me.
     
  6. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 1,000+ Posts

    I can see having a package for a QB with a different skill set. (Swoopes)
    But I prefer you have a starter and build your offense around his skills. (VY)
    Shane would be a much better QB if not being inserted in an offensive scheme made for a QB closer to the skill set of Sam. And vice versa.
     
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  7. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I agree with Poms to the extent that you should go into every game planning to get your back up some snaps, and you have to make an honest effort to do that. But not until the game is in hand.

    If you have a comfortable lead by the 2nd quarter, then you start working some drives in for your back-up. If the game is always in doubt, then you stick with the starter the whole game (Unless he's playing horribly enough that you think the back-up could do better)

    Problem is, we haven't had too many comfortable leads in the last decade. LOL.
    And prior to that, we didn't always make an honest effort at getting time for the back-ups. Mack got to chasing records.
     
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  8. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 1,000+ Posts

    Depending on the game, I could see other circumstances besides "Mop up duty."

    1) QB takes a big hit on a run and gets up slowly. Just run the other QB in and give the QB a breather.

    2) 18-wheeler package - if your backup is a very solid runner, create a few run/pass option plays. Bring in a couple of guys that get all of the reps with him in practice so, other than his pre-snap cadence, the continuity is not killed.
     
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  9. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I see Poms point
    It seems to me you get better and real experience in real time. Getting only mop up snaps will not give you pressure experience.

    Poms pointed to the new Redshirt rule.
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
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  10. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    Getting mop up snaps will not help much if all you are asked to do is hand off and kneel down. It'll help plenty if you get to run the whole offense. Run in the 2nd team against a worn out defense and let them play.
     
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  11. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 500+ Posts

    I understand your point moondog but I think Shane is closer to being a runner than Sam being a passer especially the deep throws and we do need the opposing team to be leary of us going deep. The problem with Sam is that he thinks he is a bulldozer and then as the game goes on he doesn't think as well as we need him to which is understandable. I suppose I put more stock into qbs who are more of a passing tactician. And we have seen Shane run the ball for first downs.:clap:
     
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  12. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 500+ Posts

    I think Shane a pretty good runner, along with being the better passer. The issue isn't talent, it's staying healthy. Especially with our OL.

    Until we see better blocking we won't see better QB play from anyone not named Vince Young.
     
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  13. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    Shane was the wrong guy once CW went down. You have to have a LT to throw the ball and we had zero out there on the left side. Hopefully Anderson gives us a one year reprieve to get some talent developed. Hell, we couldn't block from the RT either. It was just abysmal and left both QBs exposed. i expect better this year assuming we can keep guys healthy. We finally have 3 Sr.s projected to start and Shack at center. If we're not significantly improved then it's time to go fishing again on Saturday's.
     
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  14. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    You don't need to get the backup reps if the starter is good. Nobody was clamoring for Matt Nordgren to get more playing time in 2005.

    Our biggest issue seems to be "simplification" on either side of the ball. Like after the Maryland loss last year. So we're either recruiting dummies, or not utilizing our strengths appropriately. This seems to be the issue with OL and QB... forcing Shane/Sam to do uncomfortable things with the ball, and not giving them enough time to do it from the line perspective.

    You could give either QB as many game reps as you want and it wouldn't matter for us last year or probably this year too.
     
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  15. Driver 8

    Driver 8 smoooove

    So if the starter goes down you have a cold backup with no game experience. Sounds like a great plan.
     
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  16. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Worked with Randy McEachern, but Randy was a major exception to the real world. At least two backups should get practice reps with first team to prepare them. In Randy's case, a coach's son who ran the scout team against Leon Fuller's defense.
     
  17. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    I opine Shane is the QB that can stretch defenses with accurate long passes and we have the WRs that can go deep. Our OL will be better in run blocking and pass protection this year. Shane should starts.
    I am thinking our offense is going mirror Ohio St offense so we probably need three qbs ready to go.
     
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  18. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    So you were the guy who was upset that Nordgren only got the last few minutes of the Baylor game in 2005 and Chiles took like 20 snaps in all of 2008. Got it.

    This isn't the NFL. If you're good, you're not supposed to need another guy to come in. If you're injured, you can't go out on the market and sign Mark Sanchez. You roll with what you got. And if what you got isn't that great to begin with (like our situation for the past 8 seasons), then it doesn't matter how much time either gets. If Shane gets separation from Sam, great. If Sam gets separation from Shane, great. Either way, I don't see a path in which one clearly dominates the competition for the foreseeable future, so you'll get your wish in which both play.

    I just wish we didn't need both to play to figure out whether we were good. It's sad that it's come to this.
     
  19. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Drives shouldn't be treated as expendable. Period. I still remember the game we played against Colorado way back under McWilliams. He used to switch in the entire second team offensive line for a series or two during games - and he did it once in the second quarter when it seemed like the team had really built some momentum. We went three and out, they scored and the game shifted.

    I was. If you can't trust your backup QB with a 50-0 halftime lead over Kansas, then you have serious depth issues.
     
  20. Driver 8

    Driver 8 smoooove

    I was devastated over these events, why must you tear open old wounds
     
  21. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    So would Nordgren win the conference and beat USC? Does anything matter at that point?
     
  22. beer_dog

    beer_dog 100+ Posts

    Are you really going into a recruits house and telling them if they earn the first team QB job they going to have to share it with the backup?

    "Yes Ma'am, If Billy comes to Texas he's is going to sit two series in the first half and at least one in the second half." Now please sign on the dotted line Hookem!
     
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  23. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 2,500+ Posts

    I never thought I'd see the day that Kevin Sumlin would be a lurker on HornFans

    :hookem2:
     
  24. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 500+ Posts

    Thanks for your input.
    In our case for this season our backup would not make drives expendable because he is experienced. Just because someone else takes the reigns for a couple of drives doesn't mean the wheels are going to fall off, in fact one good accurate throw could mean a TD. It feels good to have experienced qbs.
    I think it's good for morale if the backup comes in to play some especially if he puts up points on the board....just sayin. However I don't think Herman shares my view. Oh well... I just hope he gets a feel of when to play the backup if the starter seems a little woozy.
     
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  25. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 500+ Posts

    I doubt if the coach is going to mention a few drives is going to be for the backup. But if he did the recruit might think he has an early chance to play.
     
  26. beer_dog

    beer_dog 100+ Posts

    We don't recruit backups! You earn the starting job and you fight to keep it. I'll be !@#$ if it's a good idea to pull a starter off the field just because Billy needs a few reps. The only reason I would pull the starter off the field is if he can't move the ball or the game is at hand. There is no other reason. I want my starting QB in charge the entire game, I want him racking up stats and leading the team to victory, that's how you build a championship team, not by inserting backups in the first half. If you are playing more than one QB you DO NOT have a STARTER. Now it's time for that drink :)
     
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  27. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing.

    I seem to remember McEachern handing off to a pretty decent back quite often. But the name of the back Earlscapes me. I guess it'll Campbell back to me later.
     
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  28. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Liquor Man

    I Tyler laugh, but those puns just never Rose to the occasion.
     
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  29. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Does a couple of dozen extra plays against demoralized backups who probably aren't as good as your own team's practice squad really make much difference if a guy gets thrown into a big game later?
     
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