The Budget

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by nashhorn, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    is a joke. "just tell us what you want Mr Obama and we'll figure out how to make it sound like we got something for our side". Things just keep getting worse as to any fiscal responsibility.
     
  2. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Yep, Democrats promise social programs they can't pay for. Republicans cut taxes and start wars.

    Politicians are skilled at electoral math but baffled by budget math.
     
  3. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    A pox on both their houses. Just pathetic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The legislative process has become so corrupted that elections don't matter all that much. In this specific case you have some broad parameters put forth by Republicans (tax cuts, increased military spending, exporting oil & gas, etc.) and Democrats (increased spending on welfare, social programs, and government bureaucracies). Each side lets the other have most of what they want. The alternative is to stand on principal and have a government shutdown.

    But that's only part of the problem. Keep in mind this bill was 2200 pages and dumped within 48 hours before the vote. Most of it was written by both private and government lobbyists serving interests from banking to the Pentagon, to the NSA. For instance, CISA the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act is now the law of the land; passed without zero debate and certainly would not have passed if it were a stand alone issue.

    Checks and balances are no longer effective in the United States Government. The Department of Justice is a political arm of the Executive Branch that does not enforce the law in a nonpartisan manner. The revolving door allows for generals to lobby for defense firms and for officers in the corporate world to head government agencies charged with regulating the very industry they came from.

    Not only is the public unaware of what our money will be spent on, most of the Congressmen we elect don't have a clue either. They have to pass it to see what's in it.
     
  5. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    It's a fact, we need a revolution and one will come. Maybe, nay probably, not in my lifetime but it will come and it is the only way things will change. My prayer, I can still say that just not do it in public, is that it (the revolt) will come from within.
     
  6. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    What's clear to me is that the oil industry is balls deep in the GOP leadership. They wanted that export ban lifted at all costs, and the Democrats knew it. Accordingly, they squeezed as hard as they could and took the taxpayers to the cleaners.

    If any special interest group has that kind of clout, that's a major problem.
     
  7. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    That kind of clout? The insurance is only one of many.
     
  8. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    The GOP has always whored for various business lobbies over the decades, but this was unique. They decided to deliver the goods to the oil industry and completely forsake every other priority they had, and that's pretty unusual. Typically even the oil industry has to play ball a little.
     
  9. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    I fear the GOP just handed the nomination to Trump and caused irreparable harm to their party. It is beyond irresponsible to pass this spending bill while we have a national debt that now exceeds the GDP. They just added a lot of fuel to the narrative that the GOP is not that different from the Democratic party just a different set of special interest groups. I would not be surprised to see a major fracture of the party in the next few years.
     
  10. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Irreparable harm already done in my opinion. Occurred when they failed to defeat Obama for second term. As much as I detest BO I concede he has brilliantly manipulated the forces, media, public, etc. towards his goals - destruction of the GOP and reforming American into his image of what it should be.
    I see the fracture complete, we have a minority trying to focus on what (in my opinion) is the major calamity facing the US - the overwhelming deficit - and the remaining party constituents doing the lobbyist bidding and arguing over how to bomb ISIS into oblivion as if we ever would.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. BevoBeef

    BevoBeef 250+ Posts

    What is hidden and quietly did sneak by will be the death of Obamacare. Democrats failed to include the part of the budget ability that guarantees to insurance companies that the taxpayers would pay for the losses to the health insurance companies for the health insurance that supports Obamacare. The budget now extends the time that the insurance companies take a significant risk of losing money in covering the risk pool where the insured are primarily the older generation. The size of the pool supported by younger and healthier insured has been overestimated since the younger generation is paying the penalties for not joining the risk pool.

    The death spiral for Obamacare will now continue to accelerate. As less young are paying the insurance premiums, deductibles and premiums will have to continue to skyrocket --- thus forcing the young to ignore Obamacare insurance even more. More health insurance companies will have to pull out because the losses are no longer going to be supported by the taxpayer amounts from outside the insurance pool. The Obamacare will still exist but there will not be any insurance companies that are willing to participate in the program. The government will have to pick up the insurance for Obamacare if it would continue into the future after there are no insurance companies willing to participate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  12. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Not to worry, give away Hillary will fix it, along with free college.
     
  13. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Bevo,

    I haven't heard this anywhere, but I'll assume that it happened as you describe. I'm not sure how big of a victory for the GOP this really is. First, liberals never sought to protect the insurance industry. In fact, they don't want an insurance industry. They want single payer. The perks for insurance (the subsidized losses and the removal of the public option) were to ease concerns of insurance and business friendly Democrats whose votes were essential to get the bill passed. Many of those Democrats were ousted in 2010 or 2014, leaving a Democratic caucus that is less sympathetic to the insurance industry and less interested in protecting them.

    Second, even without this provision, the mess will still exist. If losses start piling up for the insurers, Republicans will protect them, as they have protected them in other areas. They'll protect them in a way that gives them leverage over customers and providers rather than with a direct subsidy, but they will protect them. They won't just let them fold.

    Like I've said previously, I don't support single payer or the public option, but Obamacare as it exists today is worse than either one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. BevoBeef

    BevoBeef 250+ Posts

    This messenger always tends to tell the Republicans what they want to hear. However, one can usually separate out his opinion from the facts, which he does not tend to try to mislead.

    It does not matter what the Dems will want or what has happened in the past, I do not see how you can convert the ACA into a single payer system. It will have to be replaced in whole or with numerous bills that will obliterate the intended goals of the current law. The GOP will not want to prop up the insurance companies with the current infrastructure in the new version of the law. Whoever is the majority party, the compromises that may be hammered out will tear down the ACA in time. An official repeal of the current ACA will not have to be done.

    Ich möchte allen in der ganzen Welt ein frohes Weihnachtsfest.

    Bitte haben Sie ein neues Jahr mit viel Hoffnung und Glück.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2015
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Converting or replacing is largely a matter of semantics. Either one would require major statutory, regulatory, and financial changes. What this change essentially does is accelerate the day of reckoning. If Democrats run the show when things really turn to crap, they'll blame the industry and try to resurrect the public option or go all the way and adopt a single payer system. If they don't have the votes to go that far, then they'll tinker with the edges. They'll impose more restrictions on premiums and revive the corporate welfare that just got repealed. I could also see them expanding Medicaid even further perhaps to take on higher risk patients regardless of income.

    If the GOP runs the show, they'll blame the ACA and the Democrats. They'll very loudly and flamboyantly repeal most of the ACA and then enact an insurance industry wish list. They'll keep the requirement that carriers insure people with preexisting conditions, but they'll more than make up for that by deregulating insurance rates and coverages and nationalizing the insurance regulatory and liability systems. They'll preempt patient-friendly state regulations and tort liability (effectively eliminating the duty of good faith and fair dealing) systems and impose a more industry-friendly national system. Rates for healthy individuals will fall (though coverage will get narrower), and high-risk individuals will be priced out of coverage, leaving the burden to taxpayers and emergency rooms.

    And thanks for the kind words. My German is getting just good enough to understand what you wrote without having to use Google Translate. Best wishes for the coming new year.
     

Share This Page