This team

Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by Vol Horn 4 Life, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. dukesteer

    dukesteer 1,000+ Posts

    Remind me again why we dumped Rick Barnes? Through the first year and a half with Smart this program seems to have regressed. All I give a flip about is results and the results we are seeing so far are bad ones.

    Young team? In the "one and done" world of college basketball it's almost impossible to build for next year.
     
    DINO22 likes this.
  2. DINO22

    DINO22 1,000+ Posts

    I don't understand how as a player, you are not learning from game to game.I do believe Coach Smart is teaching and training.But are the player's getting it.There no Leadership on the Floor at all.I still see too many player's, still think they are in High School.1 Player will not win a game at the College Level.Each player need to look at tape's of their game's.And evaluate them self.It's that bad.Yea a True Point Guard will help.But that's not the problem with Texas.Allen was Outstanding.But they do not get the ball to him enough.E.Davis offense is so bad.It's starting to hurt his defense.Now hear come Mack.Sports are more mental then anything.I also was very disappointed in Roaches performance.Now let's speak on the Leadership. Cleare and Yancy most learn to be more vocal on the Floor and the Bench.Talent is there.But can they get it together is the question. Come on now FIGHT.
    Hookem'
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
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  3. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    I think you identified most of the reasons leading to the team's losses. Leaderless, turnovers, poor guard play, not making the offense go through the big guys, turnovers (did I say that already?) poor guard play (merits a second mention) and a generally immature basketball IQ. Like Dino above said: looking like a high school offense too much of the time: too much dribbling, playing like you're the only talented guy on the team, dribbling into traps, etc. etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  4. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Rick did one thing that Shaka has not done. Rick had a history of recruiting good point guards; the last one was Isaiah Taylor. Before that, T.J, P.J. etc.

    Any of those three guys on this team and we have five more wins.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  5. DINO22

    DINO22 1,000+ Posts

    And J.Young just because you finally hit 1 3 - pointer, does not mean you come back down and try for another one.Without J.Allen touching the ball down Inside.He's your Hottest player right now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  6. DINO22

    DINO22 1,000+ Posts

    A.Jones I did not want to leave out.Because he could be a factor for Texas success.
    Slow down and stop making bad passes and decision.You got all the the Talent.
     
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  7. old65horn

    old65horn 500+ Posts

    Roach was 3 of 8 from the FT line. I don't see how a shooting guard who wants to dribble into traffic could do that. Slow down and concentrate before shooting.
     
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  8. old65horn

    old65horn 500+ Posts

    Kentucky seems to do quite well with "young" teams, year in, year out.
     
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  9. SAMMCHornfan

    SAMMCHornfan 100+ Posts

    Another woulda shoulda coulda game for the young horns. Too bad when the big men are shooting free throws better than the guards. I am willing to give Shaka a couple of more years. He may even turn this year around. But, if the season continues the way it has been, the Horns won't even be looking at the tournament for teams with losing records. If Shaka can bring in a decent point guard and Osetkowski is the beast I think he may be, this team shouldn't be too bad next year. Who knows, maybe even Allen will be smart enough to come back for another year.
     
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  10. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    True. Their young teams often contain the very top recruits in our country. I mean 2 or 3 of the top 5 or ten. And note that this bunch is balanced. Calaperi cherry picks the best guard, the best big man (men because he often gets more than one).

    And its not unusual for Duke and North Carolina to have a one and done guy also. BUT remember, the Kentucky's, Duke's, and North Carolina's of the world have the best basketball tradition in our country, building upon itself uninterrupted over decades and decades. In KU's case since the first half of the 20th century. Coaches, fan base etc. Longer and more consistently than UCLA's which seemed unbeatable for a couple of decades with Wooden. Even UCLA has had trouble keeping its storied program on top with recruits post Wooden. But not UK. And not NC post Smith. It will be very interesting to see what happens to Duke post Coach K.

    Anyhow, I guess I am taking too long to say I don't find it very helpful to compare our basketball program with the Kentucky's of the world.

    Our team has so many flaws right now. Not just youth. The team is missing some parts that it needs to win consistently in a tough B12. Guard play, a tough smart power forward, etc, just to name a couple. Our young players are not top 5 in the country (Allen is top 15). They were not top ten.

    The one and done we have now, Allen, is doing OK, but the poor guard play is inconsistent in how to keep Allen involved. Too much dribbling, not enough passing. Too much standing around, not enough movement, screens, etc.
     
  11. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

    This is Shaka's first true recruiting class. 3 talented guys who have issues playing the game - I am having flashbacks to the last 3 football seasons - supposedly top (or near top) talent and diminishing returns. Either the talent evaluation or the coaching is wrong. In Shaka's case I haven't given up on him. Let's give it another full cycle.
     
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  12. old65horn

    old65horn 500+ Posts

    Very fair and good point. I really meant that you can do well with talented freshmen, but I think you nailed they key point, a rounded class. You have pointed out that with a point, we would be very competitive right now. I still have hope that Smart can pull this thing together by the middle of the conference season. Too late for this year, but a good building block for next year, I hope he can get Davis back on track too. I think he actually started the slide late last year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
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  13. Htown77

    Htown77 2,500+ Posts

    He has five years left on a contract after this year being the highest paid coach in UT basketball history. He will be here at least three more seasons. All we can do is hope he turns it around starting next year.

    On a side note, Barnes won his conference road opener with Tennessee. Barnes went into College Station Thursday and beat A&M.
     
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  14. LousianaHorn

    LousianaHorn 250+ Posts

    Wonder why people arent jumping Shaka's butt like they did Charlie.......his teams were pretty young too.
     
  15. bystander

    bystander 2,500+ Posts

    Because in Texas there are only two sports: football and spring football.

    It's just not important enough to get worked up about.
     
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  16. bystander

    bystander 2,500+ Posts

    But what is a full cycle? In the one and done era you don't have time to build. It's reload, reload, reload...
     
  17. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    People want to say its all about tradition and all that BS, but its becuase these programs like Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc HIRE GREAT COACHES who recruit good players at ALL 5 positions and coach them up . Its that simple.
     
  18. blonthang

    blonthang 1,000+ Posts

    Well, Smart's first season here wasn't a drop off for UT (Barnes' previous was 20-14, Smart's was 20-13, or vice versa, both 1st round NCAA and out).

    Quite different from football going from an 8-5 to a 6-7 season (though both ended with nasty bowl losses).

    Early in this season, but if Smart can't right this listing team and finishes out of NCAAs or NIT, and if baseball shows expectations are valid, then the boobirds (yeah, including me, a bit) will start raising eyebrows re: Smart. He's getting good players. Other coaches with less, and with youth, do more.

    Right now. Early.
     
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  19. Htown77

    Htown77 2,500+ Posts

    This. He has not met the low expectations for this year so far, but it is going to be next year and possibly the year after that really tell the tale.
     
  20. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Uh, no its really not.
     
  21. uisge beatha

    uisge beatha 1,000+ Posts

    Please don't interfere with his view of the standings of Longhorns sports
     
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  22. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 5,000+ Posts

    I think one reason (certainly not the only one) is that Shaka gives a good interview. When he answers a question it is obvious he knows what the hell he is talking about, whereas with Charlie it was often difficult to follow his train of thought, leading people to wonder if he really knew his ****.

    Coaches have to be extremely high level communicators. Shaka is. TH is. Charlie, while he improved during his time here, was not.
     
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  23. Htown77

    Htown77 2,500+ Posts

    It was discussed earlier, but Shaka actually made the tournament year one. I was convinced he was about equal in quality to Barnes and he achieved the same results as Barnes year 1 in the same situation (same players with a key injury just like the year before). If Strong had gone 8-5 year 1, which was completely obtainable as OU and UCLA are wins with a different offensive coordinator, Charlie would have taken less heat as well.
     
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  24. uisge beatha

    uisge beatha 1,000+ Posts

    I also recall last year there was plenty of howling on this board after the TCU loss (@harry_horns where are you?)
     
  25. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I will say, all the "We need a point guard for this offense to work right" talk sounds exactly like what we said about Barnes whenever Ford/Augustine weren't here.

    And tradition has nothing to do with where coaches or recruits choose to go?
     
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  26. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    A couple of more thoughts on the KSU game. We were fortunate to be within three points. Check this: our team was 7 of 12 free throws; ksu was 26 of 33. That is a shocking difference in getting to the line. Our only guard to even attempt a free throw was Roach, who went 3 for eight. We won't win any games with a disparity like that from the line.

    Point # 2 concernss guard play. We played four guys at guard: Davis, Young, Jones, Roach. They were a combined 8 assists and nine turnovers. MORE TURNOVERS THAN ASSISTS from our fricking guards. I don't remember ever seeing this from a B12 team before.:whiteflag:
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  27. caryhorn

    caryhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Yes sir^^^. And Tradition also has to do with TV exposure, money, booster support, bigtime home field advantage (18,000 in the stands at every home game for 20 years straight), etc. etc.
     
  28. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    ............and KSU, Kent State, Northwestern, Colorado, and Baylor have all that tradition, TV, boosters, money, and 18,000 in the stands for 20 years.......???????
     
  29. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 5,000+ Posts

    No. And it is idiotic in the extreme to believe that just because those programs are up for the time being that they will always be up. It is also idiotic to be so jealous of programs that are up that you become angry and bitter instead of simply enjoying the process of climbing the mountain from the valley we currently occupy.
     
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  30. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 5,000+ Posts

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