That's a lot to pin your hopes to. I'm not sure I entirely buy the rationale that the only reason he was leaving early was to be the #1 overall pick for his hometown team. That would seem to have worse odds than many bets in Vegas, and this was his entire future that he's talking about. And looking at how undeniably thin the 2007 QB draft class was the following year, is there any doubt that VY would have been taken ahead of Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn? I think deep down he was striking while the iron was hot... the national championship made him an international brand. That game alone propelled him to the level of #3 pick stardom, just like the Fresno State and UCLA games for Reggie Bush propelled him to the Heisman and #2 pick. He wasn't going to come back, risk everything with injury, and hope for another run at a championship if he could make guaranteed cash now.
I tend to believe VY, but alot of what Horns11 wrote played into it. If you remember Lee Corso gushing at the conclusion of the championship game about how VY was the greatest player ever and how he should declare for the draft right now, and how VY's preacher had a vision in a dream about VY being the number 1 pick, I think VY bought into the hype and truly believed he would be the #1 pick by the team he wanted to play for.
I think he was gone no matter what after the title game. If we would have lost he would have come back. If he knew what he knows now about his NFL career he would have come back.
I remember Mack Brown being shocked when he learned of Vince's decision, so I have to think Vince himself thought he was coming back until very late in the process. (There are downsides to the "family atmosphere" Mack created at Texas, but one of the upsides was that it was rare for players to declare for the draft early - until after Vince, of course.) I've always blamed his early departure on his uncles, who were giving him advice and looking forward to being a part of his NFL entourage, but who knows.
One thing I am confident about - had he come back for his Sr. season, VY would have lead UT to another NC in 2006.
I'm not sure if I'm sold on it after how unbelievable his last year finished out like a dream come true. That game probably exceeded any of his wildest visions or dreams of a perfect ending. How often does reality exceed a superman's dreams? However, we all know Vince is hell bent on loyalty when it comes to football. He LOVED playing for Texas with all his heart. Spent his days as a pro continuously coming back to visit, and pumped up UT at every chance he had to speak on the topic. I saw him on Longhorn Extra today and he still LOVES being here. He constantly said "us" and "we" talking about details of the team sounding like a current player. He also LOVES his Houston roots and fans. With a great chance to become the savior QB for his hometown's new team, it was another dream scenario to flourish in his own loyalty. There's zero doubt he completely discarded the warning Houston may pass on him when he made the draft declaration. He was the hottest superstar in college football and won it all. He was already a Houston legend and hero. It just made too much sense in his mind. He ignored the fact that the early Texans regime was insanely short on common sense and logic. If he'd have known his hometown team would pass on him, the overwhelming feelings of slight and disrespect may have driven him back to the loyalty in Austin. It wouldn't be going to Tennessee which forced return feelings, but the slap in the face he felt from his hometown team. Loyal people feel betrayed when their loyalty is not recognized or appreciated. I mean really, what else could the guy have done to earn their faith in him and a chance to help his own people. Still, I'd say he would've been 80/20 on leaning going pro. Hard to believe an unbelievably accomplished college superstar could win the college "game of the century" and return. In modern times it would go against everything we have seen before. All that last year would've done is give people a chance to pick him apart anyway they could. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
I'm not super-convinced that we would have beat tOSU at home in September with VY at the helm. I think we'd have more of a fighting chance, but I think that one with Vince would be just as much a tossup as the 2005 game. Now, KSU and A&M, minus anything bad happening to Vince, probably would have been much easier. And the conference championship game. I'm guessing we would have remained ahead of UF in the final rankings considering their Week 7 loss. The national championship rematch against tOSU would have been epic.
With Vince, we win that game hands down, a man on a mission for the Heisman is not going to lose that game.
Colt was pretty good as a freshman, and he didn't necessarily do anything wrong against tOSU. The interception that set up one of the Buckeye TDs wasn't the worst-thrown ball ever. And VY did the same thing the year before. So it wasn't the QB position that was hurting us so badly against them. Stating that VY would have won it because he was on a mission basically neglects the fact that he had the occasional poor game at Texas. Tarell Brown was also suspended for that one and Ryan Palmer/Brandon Foster got picked on several times. OSU's defense didn't give up more than 17 points all season until the weird Michigan game, which exposed some of their flaws and injury problems that UF took advantage of. I don't know if Vince, that early in the season, would have his rhythm going with the "dog-housed" Billy Pittman, no David Thomas, and a line that was pretty porous that night (8 TFL allowed).
The only thing I think about when I think about Vince coming back for his senior year is what happened to Matt Leinart. He was on top of the world at the end of his junior year, much like Vince was, but decided to come back. Of course the rest is speculation, but I can't help but think Marks decision and his loss to UT cost him big time in the end as opposed to where he might have been had he went to the draft instead.
Horns11, if I remember that was a pretty close game in Austin. You think OSU would have come into Austin and knocked off the champs with the best player college football has seen in about a decade who is now one year older? I gotta think we handle the Bucks by 10 plus in this scenario. One big play I remember is Billy Pittman fumbling on the 1 stretching the ball out. Pretty close game for starting a freshman qb.
I love what Vince did for Texas, and the MNC game was probably the best game I'll ever attend in my life, but I feel like Vince is being a bit revisionist here. We won the National Championship on 01/04/06. Vince declared for the draft on 01/08/06. That was hardly enough time for anyone in his camp to learn anything about where he might get drafted. Moreover, the Texans had just fired Dom Capers on 01/03/06 and Gary Kubiak had not yet been hired when VY announced. There was really no way for him or his camp to have any idea what a team without a coach (no matter where it was located) might do with the #1 pick in 3 months.
The greatest team in NCAA history couldn't stop him. TOSU and everybody else would have been toast. Jamaal Charles, Chris O. in the backfield and by the way: first year Jordan Shipley would be healthy along with Quan and LImas Sweed and a pretty good new TE named Jermichael Finley to throw to. National Championship no question if VY comes back. If Troy Smith was the only competition, the Heisman would be his as well. If for no other reason that voters would feel guilty for giving it to Bush and then witnessing VY's performance in Pasadena. The MNC and the Heisman shouldn't even be debatable. Now how it would affect his draft status, who knows?
"Horns11, if I remember that was a pretty close game in Austin. You think OSU would have come into Austin and knocked off the champs with the best player college football has seen in about a decade who is now one year older? I gotta think we handle the Bucks by 10 plus in this scenario." If 24-7 is close, then so was our Alamo Bowl against Mariota last year. tOSU's defensive line and secondary were killer that year. And even with losing most of their 2005 LB corps, they still returned some All-America guys like Laurinaitis. We only had two offensive series in the whole game that went for more than 34 yards. tOSU had 5 series go more than that. There's nothing VY could do to get on the defensive side of the ball and help our depleted secondary stop the short passes to Anthony Gonzalez all day. Like I said, I think the game would have been closer, but there would need to be some serious outperforming Colt by VY in that game, and I don't think Colt necessarily did anything wrong. Their D-Line manhandled us, particularly the right side of our line with Dockery and Blalock, and disrupted potentially promising series. If VY would be enough to create 3 scoring drives on his own without his safety blanket (Thomas) from the last two years, I don't think we roll them. I think we have a close game that comes down to the wire like 2005.
In reply to : "I believe Vince had much more impact on his team than Matt Leinart ever did. While the team was very good, Vince elevated the them to a different level with his individual talent which no other college QB has ever had including Johnny Fingo. Winning a national championship takes a lot of luck and the right things happening at the right time. Vince made the luck happen when everything else broke down time and time again. In my opinion there was enough talent on the next team for Vince to lead and power them to another championship. " Nailed it.
Horns 11, don't want to split hairs, or get in any kind of heated debate, but... Agree to disagree. I guess we watched a different game, and I must have had orange glasses on, or it was a close game. 1st downs Texas 20 OH 17. Total yards Texas 326 OH 348 It was 14-7 @ half. 17-7 end of 3. Check it out, and even read some quotes. Players thought we were a play or two away. That being said, back to the subject of the thread; I feel with the best player in America playing at home, we win going away. Biggest play IMO Billy Pittman fumble @ the 1yd line returned to mid field.
Have to agree with Pogo. VY knew and MB knew well before the MNC game that VY was going pro. His comments now are just sort of stupid but maybe he is trying to win hearts in Houston (he doesnt need to). Unfortunately for him, VY has just made bad decison after bad decidsion after leaving UT.
"1st downs Texas 20 OH 17. Total yards Texas 326 OH 348" If first downs and total yardage is what makes a game close, then check out the stats from our 1998 game against A&M. Looking at those numbers, you'd think we would have won by 5 TDs. What made our 2006 game against tOSU not "close" was that outside of one, single drive, we had a horrible inability to do anything with the ball once we were behind, whereas Smith made the most of limited opportunities to do well in the passing game. The Pittman fumble was when the game was 0-0, and led to it being 7-0 when our secondary couldn't stop Anthony Gonzalez three straight times. There's not a thing VY could have done to fix Billy's hands or stop Gonzalez. And it's impossible to blame Colt for what was going on because he was efficient with the short game and the line kept getting pummeled. No one in their right mind knew how good Finley could be yet, because he wasn't even targeted against North Texas the week before. Charles was still nursing his hamstring early in 2006, so we relied too much on Selvin Young to carry the load. While I thought our defense did a good job stiffening up throughout the game, we couldn't stop them when it counted (their long drive in the 4th quarter), nor move the ball when it counted. "Check it out, and even read some quotes. Players thought we were a play or two away." Then they probably didn't succeed at math if it was a three-score game. "That being said, back to the subject of the thread; I feel with the best player in America playing at home, we win going away." He would have been playing the "second best" player in America in Troy Smith, assuming you think VY replicates his 2005 campaign. I don't see how that translates to a blowout win over the Buckeyes. Like I said... closer game like 2005, maybe a win, maybe not.
With that Offensive line, J-Mike, J Charles, S Young and Vince with 3.5 years of starting experience vs. 1 game for Colt, give OSU the points, I 'll take Texas, your arguments are nill in my book, A-Ross, B-Robison, Michael Griffin. Colt was good but Vince always shined in big games and or at crunch time and he would have won that game hands down.
In reply to: "Biggest play IMO Billy Pittman fumble @ the 1yd line returned to mid field." THIS was the biggest play of the game for me... changed the game at that point.
The way I remember it, VY was all set to return, and then, on a Saturday night, Vince's preacher had a dream, and the preacher chose to interpret the dream as meaning Vince should turn pro. So, on Sunday, with the preacher's dream revealed, and his mama in the corner of the preacher, Vince turned pro, and that was that.
