When is the court date for Hillary?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by zork, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...aeus-sentenced-sharing-classified-information

    By having her unsecured private server, and having it backed up in even another location, handling classified documents didn't she break the law worse than General Petraeus?

    Has someone ever been elected while on probation for "mishandling classified information"?

    Or should these two cases be the new standard for dealing with mishandling of classified information?

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/obama-double-standard-petraeus-leaks

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/22/the-double-standard-for-david-petraeus.html

    The Washington Post on the topic:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...8466f0-39d5-11e5-9c2d-ed991d848c48_story.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Clearly the standards were lowered for Petraeus too. It's scary that the powerful in our government/military can get away with such lax security standards while their are people sitting in prison for much less offenses. This just reinforces that there are different rules for those with power/money than for those without.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    This is another example of the Clinton lack of respect for Classified documents.
     
  4. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    http://lisnews.org/node/27595

    National Security Advisor to former President Clinton did this. Is there a pattern with the Clintons and misuse of Classified Documents? Should we trust that when/if she would be President of the United States that it would be any different?
     
  5. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    Here is a PDF of the Sandy Berger(aka Sandy Burglar) Classified Documents investigation:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/berger.pdf

    So if Hillary were to get the "no access to Classified Documents for 3 years" like Sandy, for each of the documents she allowed to go onto the unsecured servers and devices she read them and presumably altered them on, how many years would she not be able to access Classified Documents?

    Would that be a problem as President of the United States? Would she be able to hear Classified information, just not read the documents? Can she pardon herself once elected?

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/jul/23/20040723-111413-2905r/?page=all
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    Does anyone else find it puzzling that of all the cases mentioned only Gen. Petraeus was penalized in any significant way.
    I am surprised any Dem is still trying to pretend Hillary didn't do anything wrong
     
  7. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    In due time.. The American people have to prioritize and are far too fired up about Benghazi to even think about her other crimes right now.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Welcome back, chango.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Good to get the daily dose of DNC talking points.
     
  10. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    She should be held to the standard of the law on each breach of her classified documents misuse. It was not just one document. It was not just one location where unsecured classified documents were repeatedly and over an extended time stored on less than tier IV(or whatever the current tier of Data Center security) security that is required to store Classified electronic communications.

    That part misuse of Classified documents doesn't even mention the breaking of rules regarding the open records for Executive Branch employees that will be very difficult to track since she did it on a non-secure private server.

    She should at minimum be banned from access to secure documents for X amount of years like the others who did much less.
     
  11. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    Pardon me(or her most likely) but this looks serious:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-says-prosecuted-just-failing-tell-Obama.html


    Then there is the other side of the privilege spectrum standard :

    Should the Democrats support a different standard for the likes of Hillary Clinton? Drake lost his clearance for much, much less.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
  12. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    Was it stupidity or hubris that led her and her handlers to think she could get away with this?
    Now I see Bo teed off the FBI so I do not think they will not investigate to the fullest.
    Since he has said he did not know how can she escape this?
    Will Dems still support her
     
  13. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    there's your daily talking point ... spin away
     
  15. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not a fan of HRC and won't be voting for her but the Benghazi "investigations" are as political as the Ken Starr fiasco. I'll never understand how the "party of fiscal responsibility" justifies the wasting of millions of tax payer $$$'s on political hatchet attempts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    If Clinton handled national security information appropriately (a much more damming issue imho), this probably would have been wrapped up a long time ago.

    And of course the faux outrage over fiscal responsibility always comes out against the GOP when it deals with issues about our servicemen and women overseas. How dare they!!!

    SH, you always make it a point to say that only folks on West Mall call you a liberal. Do you actually believe that, or is that a strategy you like using? I think you're a great poster with a terrific intelligent voice, but I've lived all over the country in some of the bluest districts and this is what people say.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  17. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Not to split hairs or anything, but the 4 individuals killed in the attacks were civilians.

    Until TMZ or whoever finally reveals what was in the most sensitive Clinton emails, the GOP is going to continue the panels and committees and whatever to keep her mistakes in the public eye. It's the content of the emails that matters. Chelsea Clinton wedding plan emails have about as much thrill as paint drying. My guess is that WikiLeaks steps up and provides something of substance (classified material) that she lied about and it'll sink her. For about 20 minutes.
     
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    SH,

    The GOP has never had a coherent message about what HRC and the Obama Administration did wrong in Benghazi. They've always been able to point to negligent acts and omissions (as did the government's internal probes), but for whatever reason, neglect and poor performance has never been grounds to get rid of, impeach, or even politically damage public officials. It should be, but it never has been, simply because the public has never demanded it. We just don't care very much. Some kind of nefarious intent or fraud has always been a requirement.

    However, there are a few things to note. First, the Benghazi Committee had access to things the previous investigations didn't always have access to, such as HRC's e-mails. The scope and investigative power of their committee was not like what the previous investigative bodies had, and their work was not entirely redundant of what the other committees had done.

    Second, the cost of an investigation is heavily driven by the forthrightness of the people and institutions being investigated. If the person under investigation is dishonest and doesn't consistently turn over relevant information and documents, a lot more resources have to be committed to conduct the investigation. A competent investigator doesn't just take the word of the person under investigation. His job is to verify. When HRC decided to conduct her official business in secret, that pretty much guaranteed that any investigation into her activities was going to be expensive.

    Hell, it took an army of lawyers, forensic experts, investigators, and federal judges months just to get at HRC's official e-mails. That's expensive, and it should piss you off. Those e-mails don't belong to her. They belong to you, because she sent and received them while in the course and scope of her employment with the US government. However, rather than turn them over to you upon request, she bullshat you and ****** with you every step of the way. That's outrageous, and that fact all by itself should be enough reason not to vote for her.

    Consider the example of Gerald Ford, who exemplified the inexpensive investigation on the Nixon pardon. He waived executive privilege, turned over everything that was asked for, and appeared before a House Judiciary Subcommittee. How much do you think that investigation cost the taxpayer? Other than the committee staff who were already on the government's full time payroll, probably very little if anything. The bill for lunch during the hearing was probably the biggest expense. HRC followed and consistently follows the complete opposite of Ford's example.

    Third, I think it was worth the cost and hassle of conducting the investigation, as poorly and politically as the GOP conducted it. Personally, I think the GOP was stupid to make a publicity stunt out of it. They should have conducted it in a low key (but not secret) fashion and shouldn't have presented it as a political talking point. However, regardless of that, they did pretty much establish that the Administration (including HRC herself) lied about the incident, and I don't use the word "lie" haphazardly or lightly. I use that term when the preponderance of the evidence shows that the Administration made statements they knew to be false. When they claimed the attack was a spontaneous attack by people upset about a privately made video, they knew it was BS, and yes, that's big problem. It should bother people. Will it? Who knows? But it should.

    Finally, let's keep our perspective on the money issue. Collectively, we've spent more on origami condoms and lesbian obesity than we have on the Benghazi Committee.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
  19. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Yeah, I think that is the big thing Deez. The American public was sold repeatedly a narrative during a re-election campaign that turned out to be false. That should be a big deal to all of us. I think the other important thing that came out was HRC made a statement as to what Ambassador Stevens was doing in Benghazi at the time. She said he was doing "reconnaissance" on rebel groups in the Benghazi area. It doesn't say everything, but at least it gives us an idea and reinforces the fact that she knew who attacked the consulate and killed the Ambassador. It can lead to further speculation about what specifically he was trying to do, but she attached the term "expeditionary diplomacy" that was "open ended" to her description, which tells me he was trying to work something out with these guys. I had read a year or so ago that the attack was an arms deal going bad. HRC's comments lend credence to that idea.

    If anybody is paying attention it took 3 YEARS and 8 INVESTIGATIONS to interview the Sec of State about the incident. If that doesn't show us all that she is dishonest to the core and that she will use every apparatus of government to protect herself from accountability, I don't know what does.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    Should the average voter ( of either party)care that a person running for POTUS lied repeatedly to the families of the fallen and to the country about the "cause" of the attack?

    There was a lot that came out yesterday that should have people running away from the thought she would ever be POTUS
    but most people will not pay attention to most of it and the media will bury it anyway.

    But there is no burying that she lied. It wasn't an insignificant lie. It wasn't lie for the for the greater good.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Part of the problem is that news outlets like Yahoo put out headlines saying things like little new information came out or that Hillary stood her ground. So most people will see the headlines, shrug their shoulders, and vote for her.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Or they could watch FOX News and get a rerun of Beghazi histronics little different than they've been running since 2012.

    Problem is that if you fill all of your political discussions with partisan BS. then pretty soon people hear the partisan BS and assume you got no info. Republicans on the Benghazi Committee, just doing their political duty assigned by party leaders, look hostile and contemptuous. Carl Bernstein on CNN said it was the most hostile committee grilling of a political official since the McCarthy hearings. You have Gowdy looking nervous and flustered, other Congressmen overtly angry or having trouble listening and understanding answers and you just assume that the ones looking like incompetent overzealous political hacks are full of Hillary hate and posturing for people that already hate Hillary.
     
  23. Spur 90

    Spur 90 25+ Posts

    Random items:

    Apparently her email was down during Superstorm Sandy. So we have one of the most powerful leaders in our country inaccessible during a national crisis, simply because she chose to not follow the rules and protocols.

    Also, we know that foreign governments (friendly and not) also engage in spying all of the time. And hackers as well. If it turns out that classified materials were exposed due to her not following the law, should she be in prison.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  24. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'm on record on this board that she should be investigated for her email/national security. What does a Benghazi investigation have to do with that? I understand that it was the Benghazi investigation that uncovered the email but now this investigation has turned from one whose mandate was to focus on Benghazi to her email habits. Seriously?

    Well, my family in Texas thinks I'm a "liberal" but that's only because I'm not a bible thumper. I'm a registered independent and have no problem voting Republican should the candidate situation call for it and have voted for R presidential candidates in the past. This message board tends to be a bit of an echo chamber for the right thus anything in the middle would seem "liberal".

    I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal. I strongly believe we need to curtail entitlement and defense spending. I'd start by raising the age limit on Social Security and make it means based. We project our power abroad too much. The Iraq war may have been the single biggest strategic blunder in our nations modern history. It will ultimately be judged as worse than the Vietnam war as it tipped the entire ME into chaos. I believed that Quaddafi and Sadam were bad men but necessary to keep the fundamentalists at bay.

    What I hate is when the investigative powers in Congress are used for political agendas. Clearly that's what is happening now. Mike McCarthy's statement and Trey Gowdy's personal redaction of public content is evidence of that. Rep. Issa didn't uncover anything either with his committee hearings. If you count in the total costs of the multiple investigations, government responses, etc. we are approaching $20M to find out what we already knew, there was vastly deficient security in Benghazi, a city that our Ambassador should never have been in. BTW, I also recognize that the Democrats on the committee were carrying HRC's water. It was pure political charades better left for a Presidential debate stage than a hearing in Congress.
     
  25. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Yes. Fox News is the bugaboo here. Pay no attention to the fact that Hillary did lie to mischaracterize an attack on a US Ambassador that worked for her.

    Yes. The problem is that there are angry Republicans. Oh yeah, most hostile grilling since McCarthy that should be clear since Bernstein was in the McCarthy hearings. Plus McCarthy was correct, there were multiple Soviet agents and Communists involved in high levels of the US government during that time. At least the KGB wrote that they thought so at the time.

    But yeah the problem is how angry and agitated the investigators are, which totally proves how great Hillary is. If only they were more polite, then we could believe that Hillary lied, but nope, too damn rude.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I agreed that she and others in the Obama Administration did lie and mischaracterize the attacks. Is this still news? Since lots of people are dead, should we rehash the lies of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove?

    Certainly there was a real threat of Communism in the 1950s, but McCarthy with his lying, bullying and injustice gave no help the fight against it.
     
  27. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    Come on Crock
    I know you are not trying to pretend what happened during run up to Iraq is on the same level as with what Hillary did.
    That would be the epitome of being disingenuous
     
  28. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I understand the additional scope and that HRC has obfuscated the investigation at every opportunity. Still, what is the goal of the committee? We already KNOW the Obama Admin had an incorrect spin and took a week to change their talking points. I really appreciate that this committee uncovered HRC's email operation too but that's tangential to what the investigation is supposed to be about. We are spending $20M to get to a conclusion that was already known. Wasting money in other areas doesn't justify this waste.

    Do I have a problem with administrations lying? Yes, all of them, R or D. Do I think it's worth $20M to rub their nose in their excrement when it won't change the behavor? No.
     
  29. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Certainly I would agree both the scale of the lying and the consequences for our geopolitical circumstance, cost in lives, treasure, etc. are in no ways comparable.
     
  30. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    4 lives vs. 10's of thousands and you are more concerned about the 4? Like politicians do for a living, they spin to their agenda. One spin forever changed the course of American history while the other spun the loss of 4 brave souls. Neither was acceptable but one had a much more grave impact.
     

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