Why not vote Libertarian?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Sangre Naranjada, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    If ever there was a POTUS election that begs for a viable third party candidate, this one is it. So why the hell hasn't the L party stepped up and gotten its message out on social media at least? I will vote L at the top of the ticket as I have every election since 1988, but I am highly disappointed that not only has the party gotten no traction, it doesn't even seem to be trying. Am I the only Libertarian in the room?
     
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  2. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I like most Libertarian views, but do not consider myself one. However, I do not consider myself a Republican anymore. I am definitely considering a third party vote, but keep running into the undeniable fact that a third party vote is a vote for HRC.

    I hope by November, that is still not the option.
     
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  3. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    Did you see their convention where a candidate stripped his clothes off?
     
  4. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    I have voted Libertarian in the past. I align closer with their views on government intervention in the economy and our private lives not to mention changing our suicidal debt path. But let's be honest, there will never be a Libertarian POTUS. It's purely a protest vote. If Libertarians ever get serious about influencing real change then they will do so by working through the 2 party system. Socialists figured this out and were pretty successful in pushing the Democratic party further to the left this election cycle (to be fair was happening long before). Hopefully, Libertarian's will do the same in the next election cycle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  5. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    It's message is getting out on social media. See #feelthejohnson. There are also several Libertarian pages on Facebook.

    Nevertheless, even when the major parties nominate garbage, there are big barriers to a third party making inroads. It's a shame the antitrust laws don't apply to political parties.

    In addition, though I'm going to vote for Johnson, there is a crackpot element to the Libertarians that turns off a lot of people.
     
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  6. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada Winebibber

    Agreed the Libertarians could learn a lot from the Libs particularly in the area of making changes incrementally, so that in 30 years, what looks like a crackpot stance today no longer does.
     
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  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Frankly, conservatives could learn a lot from Libs in the area of incremental change. Look at Obamacare. We know that the long term goal for most Democrats is a single payer system. We're not there yet, but consider how long the Democratic Party has made that a priority - since at least the Truman Administration. Did they throw a fit when Congress shot in down back in the late '40s? No. They took what they could get over a period of decades, and within 10 years, they'll probably achieve their ultimate goal.

    Can you imagine the GOP having that degree of patience on anything? No. If they did something similar, the base would pitch a tantrum, toss a bunch of incumbents in primary elections, promote gridlock, and get nothing in the long term.
     
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  8. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    I have to admit ... I'm not patient when it comes to restoring the Fed. When it comes to honoring the US Constitution and how the Founders designed the Structure of the Federal Government, those reforms need to happen yesterday.

    pragmatically, I understand the point. Problem is the nation wasn't conceived over a couple generations. It was one generation.
     
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  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Because you will be giving the SCOTUS to HRC.
    You dont need another reason than that.
     
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  10. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    I keep running into the undeniable fact that a third party vote is a vote for Donald Trump.
     
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  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    This just says it all, and it's why I'm voting third party. Hillary Clinton is an electrical train wreck, and Trump is a diesel train wreck. However, they're both train wrecks, even if they're different kinds of train wrecks. I really don't care which one I'm helping by voting third party.

    My hope is that one of the parties decides to relieve the public of this hideous choice and nominate somebody else. I have little expectation of this, but I can hope.
     
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  12. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    This.

    There is a good chance that in addition to Scalia, the next President will get to replace Thomas, Ginsberg, and maybe even Kennedy. The SCOTUS is very old right now.

    I've heard rumors about Thomas. He has said that he didn't plan to die while still on active duty. I guess he wants to enjoy life a little.

    Can you imagine a court stuffed with Kagans and Sotomayors?

    You're just cutting your nose off to spite your face if you vote libertarian.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    It's over. Everything.

    The Constitution would not look the same in 20-30 years.
    They would shred the 1st and 2nd Amendments (one thing for certain is that cannot wait to reverse Heller).
    Claiming Libertarianism at that point will not save you.
     
  14. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    And I'll blame the brain dead dumb-fucks who voted for Trump until the day I die.
     
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  15. nashhorn

    nashhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Obviously you're referring to the primary voters.
     
  16. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    How so? You really think Bernie supporters who depend upon the government teet will jump on the Libertarian wagon?
     
  17. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    Mostly yes, but I'm not happy with those who are voting for him in the general and taking votes away from Gary Johnson.
     
  18. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    No. I think the vast majority of Bernie supporters will either support Clinton, or not vote. I think very few will vote for Trump, and even fewer will vote for Johnson.

    Then there are the centrist voters like myself. Those who see Clinton as the bigger "evil that must be stopped" will consider a Johnson vote to be a vote for Clinton. Those who see Trump as the bigger "evil that must be stopped" will consider a Johnson vote to be a vote for Trump. Neither position is any stronger than the other. In fact, I would argue that each position is exactly half true.
     
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  19. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    In 2008, o.4% of the voters voted libertarian.

    You're pissing in the ocean and hoping to change the salinity. Give it up.

    Hold your nose and vote for somebody with at least an outside chance of winning.
     
  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I was making a joke. I'm just getting sick of these idiotic handjobs who support Trump telling me that I'm taking a vote away from Trump by voting for Johnson.
     
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  21. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    No way it is exactly half true. If Bernie's vote for HRC and HRC's vote for HRC, somehow your "centrist" vote for Johnson who cannot win is a vote for Trump? I think Deez needs to change his sig...
     
  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    LOL
    Textbook cognitive dissonance
     
  23. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I expect deeper thought from you. You know that many clear thinking republicans did not vote for Trump, but are deeply worried about HRC's SCOTUS. Call people names, but at the end of the day some people think Trump is the lesser of two evils. Do you really think Trump's SCOTUS would be worse than HRC?
     
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez 10,000+ Posts

    I'll provide deeper thought when it's warranted. You're asking serious questions, so I'll give you a more serious answer.

    No, I don't think his SCOTUS appointments will be worse than HRC's. However, a few points on that. First, as important as the Court is, it's not the only issue. A Trump victory means the conservative movement loses its political mechanism, which, despite its faults, is the GOP. That's a bigger deal than the "hold your nose" crowd thinks. In addition, having a dumpster fire of a foreign policy is dangerous and can cause long term economic and political damage.

    Second, one term of Hillary Clinton isn't going to define the court for a generation as some suggest. Yes, it's going to give a 5-4 liberal majority (because of Scalia's death), but it probably won't tip the scale any further than that. It's unlikely that Thomas, Roberts, Alito, or even Kennedy will step down during her term, and it's unlikely that they'd die during her term. Ginsburg may quit, but that's no guarantee either. People tried to get her to quit under Obama, and she refused. Most likely there would still be an opportunity to flip the Court back. Furthermore, do bear in mind that if the public is pissed off enough, it does have some remedies against the Court.

    Third, if I vote for Johnson, it's not going to make a difference. At the rate Trump is going, he's going to get curb-stomped but a ridiculous margin. The proximate cause of Hillary's victory will be the dumbass Trump supporters who made him the nominee, not the small handful of conservative voters who stick by their principles and vote for Johnson. Nobody's going to give two squirts of piss about us, because it's going to be a blowout.
     
  25. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'll vote for Johnson if it appears that HRC will win going away. It will be a protest vote against both parties although I think we've desperately needed a viable 3rd party for a generation or two. If HRC and Trump are close at all, my vote will go to HRC as I hold my nose.

    I think the odds are that Trump will be the worst President since Herbert Hoover. His foreign policy will be abhorrent based on the multitude of positions he's already taken. Lastly, he'll be worse than HRC in fiscal restraint. You need only look at his leveraged businesses to see that.
     
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  26. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Only a liberal could dream up something like that.
     
  27. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts


    For decades after Republican President Herbert Hoover was demonized because the Great Depression of the 1930s began on his watch, Democrats warned repeatedly, in a series of later presidential elections, that a vote for the Republican candidate was a vote to return to the days of Herbert Hoover.

    It was 20 years before another Republican was elected president. As late as the 1980s, President Ronald Reagan was called by the Democrats' Speaker of the House, "Hoover with a smile." When a high official of the Reagan administration appeared before Congress to explain the administration's policy, a Democratic Senator said, "That's Hoover talk, man!"

    Actually, it was a policy proposal the opposite of that of the Hoover administration, but who in politics worries about the truth? The point is that Hoover was still being used as a bogeyman, more than 40 years after he left office, and nearly two decades after he was dead.

    ---Thomas Sowell
     
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  28. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 1,000+ Posts

    Suppose there are 500,000 people who are truly on the fence, probably because they abhor Trump and Clinton equally. If they all vote for Johnson, that is not the same as all of them voting for Trump, nor is it the same as all of them voting for Clinton. It is 0-0 as between Trump and Clinton, the same as if they had voted 250k-250k.

    The bottom line is, if you are a Trump or Clinton supporter, a vote for Johnson is not as bad as a vote for the adversary. It is half as bad.
     
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  29. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Or someone that is familiar with Trump's 4 bankruptcies.
     
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  30. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Does that dispute the fact that Herbert Hoover was a terrible POTUS?
     

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