K-STATE black athletes are leaving.....

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by TEXnSEATTLE, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    This is the 2nd time you've said Burnette used the "wrong venue." I'd again ask what the "right venue" is, but it shames the ideals of the University of Texas to know that there are human beings associated with it that feel there is, indeed, a "right venue" for that material. And the same goes for McNeil. If "free speech" means "free from consequences," then we should revisit the entire Eagles thread over on West Mall and see how several posters wanted to deal with his "venue."
     
  2. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The problem with Eagles was not voicing his opinion, it was that he made threats/demands. Telling a joke, no how matter how tasteless, is not threat or demand. Please do not equate the two.

    "Knock knock who's there" is not "do this or else".
     
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  3. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    All I know Is I would never ever threaten to leave a team or school nor request punishment or banishment for an offending party in such a situation. It isn't in me to want to control others and it is well within (the high locus of control) me to handle my own business if I have an issue with someone. This is the way men handle business as opposed to children.
     
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  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Thank you @RainH2burntO. Expressing opinions is not the same as trying to control others.
     
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  5. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    The "threat" that the players made was "we will not be participating in the recruiting of incoming players or donor-related events." The letter is chock full of written opinion, regardless of whether you agree with it. Players such as Coburn, Sterns, and Graham obviously agree with the opinions presented therein. Whether they're serious about following through with the comment is yet to be seen, but it's also "just speech" at this point.

    Standing up for racist tropes as free speech is harmful in a different way, but as empathy gets blasted as "illogical," the threats aren't as apparent as the written ones in the athletes' letter. They're hidden threats and protected behind a sort of veil.

    And this brings me back to Buck Burnette, whose recent tweet showed that he agrees with the athletes' opinion as well. This is a guy who should probably resent UT for kicking him out after a racist "joke" the same way that you all resent the current athletes for taking a stand, yet he stands by them. Capitulation? Maybe. That seems to be the excuse du jour for anyone who had previously been into "free speech as long as I don't get harmed from it."
     
  6. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    Aaaannnnd it's right back to if you say something a liberal disagrees with, you are racist spewing racist trope. :rolleyes1:
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  7. Texas My Texas

    Texas My Texas 25+ Posts

    Any college football player who wants to take a stand and quit playing, or even leave a university altogether, to make a point should be allowed to do so. That should include leaving for political differences.
     
  8. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    Who do the K-State players have a difference with? Did K-State not condemn the tweet joke?

    I don't get it.
     
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  9. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Any joke at anyone else's expense is "harmful". However, something tells me you do not want to ban all jokes at everyone's expense... just the ones you deem harmful. The "empathy" does not extend to everyone. It is applied unequally. "Some animals are more equal than others." In fact, in a diverse, free society, it is impossible to be emphatic to all. Empathy and hurt feelings along cannot curtail free speech.

    Also, yes, the athletes have made threats. "I refuse to take part in activities" is a threatened action, not an opinion. That crossed the line from opinion expression to threat.

    To be quite honest, I am tired of "empathy" applying to african americans and not applying to anyone else. It is really damn racist to value one group's feelings over another based on the color of their skin. Before you say "well I am white", that does not matter. Hitler was racist in favor of blonde haired and blue eyed people despite not being one. Judge people on the content of their character, their actions, how they treat other people and the reasonableness of their positions.... not their skin color. Everyone's sees opinions they do not like. Everyone's feelings get hurt. That does not mean we go around threatening and demanding vengeance on others. This "emotional racism" is HATEFUL and needs to stop.

    I have no problem with it... in the words of Nike "Just do it". Make a like a tree and leave. Do not do this threat baloney. S*** or get off the pot.
     
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  10. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Also, I will tell you what is actually "harmful" for minorities... taking rights way, blackballing people, doing away with free speech, punishing people for their thoughts and options, vengeance, assaulting people, threats, getting people fired from their jobs, looting businesses... not bad f***ing jokes!

    Bad jokes are not comparable to the above... not even close.
     
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  11. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    Yes, I'm sure if you comb through all of my posts you'll find all of the "bannings" of speech I've called for. Red herring to the rescue. Again, I'm not the government and I have no power to curtail anyone's speech.

    I don't believe in the "paradox of tolerance" arguments. Extending empathy to the intolerant, even for something as "innocent" as a joke, isn't the example of tolerance that people should set for their children. What empathy does McNeil deserve? He's basically become quasi-celebre in conservative circles, so he got what he wanted out of the joke. And the fact that people let his words slide as "free speech; no consequences" and then turn around and don't apply the same standard to anti-racist opinions of student athletes, especially those that represent UT (which I assume we all have an affinity for) and not some other college kid, seems harmful.

    Here's a thread from this board about Buck being kicked off the team:
    Buck Burnette kicked off team

    Maybe 12 years ago, Hornfans had a few more "speech has consequences" people than it does today. That's not calling for a ban or censorship.
     
  12. Galvestonhorn

    Galvestonhorn 250+ Posts

    Horns11...will you give an honest answer as to why you think this same thing has been going on for the last 7,000 years-since the beginning of recorded history- against people from the continent of Africa?
     
  13. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Treat others how you want to be treated. Would you like to suffer the consequences for every harmful or insensitive thing you have ever said to anyone? Would any of these athletes like to suffer the consequences for every harmful or insensitive thing they have ever said to anyone? Guess what, we ALL say or do insatiate or harmful things to one another. Often times people say things they do not mean, or change their mind about later. As much fun as it is to point the cannon at other people, none of us would feel the same way when the cannon gets pointed at us. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.... except with speech, people want to take an arm and a leg for a paper cut.

    I stand for tolerance of speech. My record on that on hornfans has never changed either.
     
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  14. Horns11

    Horns11 5,000+ Posts

    I don't know what to say. Like, why it's ok to have racist jokes?

    On the other thread, I was asked if I ever said anything hurtful to my wife and whether I apologized for it. This is unequal (and, since she's always right, kind of falls under the enlightened despot form of free speech). This whole "who among us hasn't..." defense doesn't jibe with what's going on in the college sports world, from Alabama to Texas to Ole Miss to Duke to Michigan State or whoever. Of course no one wants old comments (or, like... yesterday's comments) brought up as ammo.
     
  15. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin

    Are there any threads that don’t belong in West Mall now?

    Asking for an admin friend. :whiteflag:
     
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  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    No. Unfortunately the worlds of sports and west mall have collided... and we are all worse for it. :(
     
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  17. SlothHorn

    SlothHorn < 25 Posts

    Honest question.
    Would the K State players threaten to walk if the student in question tweeted the exact same thing and was black? The reason I ask is because, as if late, the most critical comedic statements on black culture have come from black comedians.
    If we're at a point in society where a "race card" has to be checked before making a statement about society - comedic or otherwise - then burn the whole thing down and start over.
     
  18. OrangeShogun

    OrangeShogun 250+ Posts

    You mean like attempting to deny someone a platform through which to express themself?
    Do you even read what you write?
    Nope, he had the right to say what he said, and then he faced the consequences. That's liberty at its finest.
     
  19. OrangeShogun

    OrangeShogun 250+ Posts

    Unfortunately no. Politics and media saturation has infected every aspect of life.
     
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  20. horninchicago

    horninchicago 5,000+ Posts

    Ha, classic.

    Screen Shot 2020-06-29 at 8.55.36 PM.png
     
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  21. mchammer

    mchammer 5,000+ Posts

    I have to wonder about the players who play for Virginia and Virginia Tech. Their governor wore blackface. If those players haven’t raised a problem with that, why should the KSU players raise a problem with an insensitive joke?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  22. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 5,000+ Posts

    Next "scandal" will be Goodell trying to force owners to draft the malcontents.
     
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  23. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    Because he dared deign to take an 'insert dead 'celebrity'' joke and place the name of the current anointed dead criminal du jour...

    And because it was clear the kid was not going to toe the narrative line, he MUST be canceled.
     
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  24. mb227

    mb227 2,500+ Posts

    Ditto this...I can recall it making the rounds after Belushi got a hot shot in the bungalow almost 40 years ago. Was likely also in one of the early volumes of Truly Tasteless Jokes (back when we were allowed to laugh at dark humor).
     
  25. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan 10,000+ Posts

    [​IMG]

    Alas, poor Dionysus, I remember the daze when he only had to keep tabs on Bevo's BFF 1973 and Texas Taps....

    :deadhorse:
     
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  26. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    the base problem many of us have is that the threats of football players put the whole structure of college football in danger because a revolt that has consequences (one that affects recruiting or fund raising) can be near lethal to the program and all of a sudden you aren't contending for anything but the conference cellar and players don't want to play there or fans want to attend or throw money.

    So what the players are doing by demanding and threatening to refrain from engaging in practices or recruiting or sucking up to alums with money is a form of extortion----you may see it as justified or in a worthy cause or as an attempt to fight an age old set of wrongs but it is what it is.

    My big problem for many years has been that we have constructed a system where academically unworthy students get in, get everything paid for, get special classes, special tutoring, etc and develop a huge sense of entitlement for no reason other than that they excel at something that is not really related to the purposes of higher education. We allowed a monster to be put together and now it wants to run the show as well as being part of the entertainment.

    Good luck with that. I will continue paying for the seats I have had for 35 years but pardon me if I am not as enthusiastic as in decades past
     
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  27. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Dion
    I've been active myself at times in this vein, but am willing to lay down all weapons if others want to.
    Can I make a suggestion?
    Ok...good...
    Obviously alot of these issues have crossed over into football and struck a chord, and I, for one, appreciate you allowing us to parse through some of it here. Thank you for your patience, understanding, and restraint.
    I would like to suggest a single thread be created ....maybe temporarily even... in "In the Stands" called ...whatever... "West DKR" or the like, and allow all football-related sociopolitical issues to be raised as single posts and discussed within one thread instead of every thread "On the Field" and in "Recruiting".
    Besides, winning these arguments is too easy and it is getting old fast. ;)
    JMHO.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  28. BrntOrngStmpeDe

    BrntOrngStmpeDe 1,000+ Posts

    Hit the nail on the head. And think about this...what does this say to women who have been assaulted and their attackers have been allowed to stay in school. "hey, ladies, we know that crime was heinous but you aren't an all-star athlete, ....so we're going to give it a pass." I've had season tickets for 30 years and I probably have $20K in UT gear and it was everyone's go-to gift for me for years, so maybe my patronage is part of the problem. Maybe I've helped college athletics get a little too important in this country. If we cave to demands like this and let a few entitled brats extort us in the emotion of the moment, then I will be done with my support and patronage.

    Not to mention, that sitting down at the table with 19-20 year olds will yield nothing but more demands in the future. They're here for 3-4 years, and then there will be a new crop making new demands.

    It is time to defund College Athletics and make the University of Texas go back to education. Let these people go play in a minor league somewhere and let us quit wasting our dollars on ingrates.
     
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  29. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 1,000+ Posts

    Not to stir up old debates, but (if you are referring to one of my replies where I brought up spousal relations) that was not my intended point. I wouldn't use the "who among us argument" to dialogue about recent issues. There was another aspect of the whole national debate in my focus, and I believe I was suggesting healthier ways to approach dialogue, as I recall; and there was a misunderstanding between us. I tried to clarify but must have failed. Just FYI...
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  30. Dionysus

    Dionysus Cocky + Relaxed Admin

    Good idea in principle but many folks won’t do it. Either they won’t know there is a dedicated thread, or some will just want to create a new one so their post is not mingled in among hundreds of others and ignored or missed.
     
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