The Bible was created by man

Discussion in 'Quackenbush's' started by Crockett, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Bookman

    Bookman 1,000+ Posts

    The reason they need you to take it on faith is because there's no other way to get there.
     
  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Take it on the wealth of evidence.
     
  3. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    If you've never seen our copy of the Gutenberg Bible on campus, go check it out sometime. It's quite impressive and one of UT's greatest treasures.
     
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  4. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias

    Yes! A great beautiful treasure! Grateful for the Catholic monasteries and Monks who through the centuries meticulously preserved the texts for the Christian world until Gutenberg could put it to print. A must see!
     
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  5. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    The Gutenberg Bible clearly resulted in a change in the structure of the Church. Once numerous Bibles were printed it got to the point that each parish, and ultimately each family, could read the Bible for themselves---without the requirement of an institutional clerical interpretive lens to see it through. This obviously spurred on the Reformation.

    Aside from the historical and religious aspects of it, the illumination within this treasure is beautiful. Some examples.

    (you won't find this in the Bibles in the hotel room drawers)

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  6. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    The initial big controversy in the wake of the Gutenberg Bible was whether it was ok to print the Bible in some language other than Latin Vulgate.

    While Jesus and the 12 Disciples probably also spoke Latin, their main languages were probably Aramaic and Hebrew.
     
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  7. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias

    Most of the world had no other means to receive the Word of God than by the preservation and voice of the Church. The Church was there before the New Testament so Jesus, in His infinite wisdom, established Her to canonize the NT scriptures for all the Christian world. Even after Gutenberg most of the world was poor or illiterate, so meticulous means continued to safe guard the Bible. If one hasn’t seen the Gutenberg bible, forget Disneyland, go to UT museum
     
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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
  8. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    I was going to say that translation into multiple languages was as much a catalyst for the Reformation as the printing press. I would say translation into understandable languages was first priority and printing was second. Printing accelerated distribution but the commoner wouldn't be able to understand it without the translation. See Wycliffe and Tyndale.
     
  9. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Reading about canonization, the Church (which didn't exist) and the churches (which did exist) didn't guide or create the canon. What you see in the history is that isolated churches collected for themselves the same Bible more or less the same. There wasn't a central authority or a unified effort to determine what books were included and which weren't. A few books were debated for a while but the discussion took place among bishops who were equal to one another. The only person who took the lead was the Holy Spirit, not "the Church".
     
  10. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias

    Nice try. Christ did not leave us a canon - but the Holy Scriptures clearly teach us He left us a Church, a living breathing Church, at that. The Old Testament books were written well before Jesus’ Incarnation, and all of the New Testament books were written (guided by the Holy Spirit) by roughly the end of the first century A.D. But the Bible as a whole was not officially compiled until the late fourth century, it was the Catholic Church who determined the canon, or list of books, of the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit for the world. The Bible is not a self-canonizing collection of books, as there is not a Holy Spirit inspired table of contents in any of the books.
    Although the New Testament canon was not determined until the late 300s, books the Church deemed sacred were early on proclaimed at Mass, and read and preached about otherwise. Early Christian writings outnumbered the 27 books that would become the canon of the New Testament. The shepherds of the CHURCH, by a process of spiritual discernment and investigation into the liturgical traditions of the Church spread throughout the world, had to draw clear lines of distinction between books that are truly inspired by God and originated in the apostolic period, and those which only claimed to have these qualities. This was certainly doable, after all, His Church is the pillar and bulwark (fortified wall) of Truth, as St Paul teaches us 1 Tim 3:16-17
    The process culminated in 382 as the Council of Rome (historical FACT) which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus (historical fact) promulgated the 73-book scriptural canon. The biblical canon was reaffirmed by the regional councils of Hippo (393 Fact) and Carthage (397 Fact), and then definitively reaffirmed by the ecumenical Council of Florence in 1442.

    Finally, the ecumenical Council of Trent solemnly defined this same canon in 1546, after it came under attack by the first Protestant leaders, including Martin Luther. By the way, Luther thanked Rome for the scriptures though he disagreed with Her on other matters.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2024
  11. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    The different churches compared notes over time. But there wasn't a centralized authority dictating what books were included. Councils affirmed what was already being practiced by the churches. I've read way more about it than what can be written on Hornfans.
     
  12. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias

    I’ve read and researched tons as well, and it doesn’t take but less than a paragraph to provide historical evidence, citations, councils, names, etc. to your claims. I’m happy to take it from there, so don’t fret. Since no original manuscripts exist, Catholic monasteries and monks preserved those sacred writings, but certainly open your proof otherwise. I’ll need sources.
     

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