2024 Presidential Election: let the jockeying commence

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Joe Fan, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    At least you look at a big picture and consequences.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    everybody keeps zeroing in on Trump and DeSantis; but there are other Republicans who are likely contestants who don't have Trump's baggage and might appeal to the 10% who don't automatically vote for one party or the other.

    I know Cruz can be obnoxious but he can also talk intelligently and debate any topic that might arise. I don't like him but the only clearly argued speech I have heard in a couple of years was one I heard him make. Might he be the last man standing in some situations?

    There are other Republicans with more pleasant personalities who might be the last man or woman standing.

    Kamala is likely the candidate the Dems are stuck with if and when Chance the Gardener gets wheeled off to the home and she will get 45% but how many beyond that? I have a hard time seeing that she would get anything beyond the usual pack of lemmings. Unless Trump gets the GOP nod.

    The debates in 2024 are not likely to be of the same level of discourse as the first ones I saw----between Kennedy and Nixon---but we had a higher class of politicians in those days, tempered by actual participation in a war and not the product of untold millions of campaign dollars and the ubiquitous idiot box
  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    You make good points
    But a higher class of politicians back then?:lmao:
    You know better
  4. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Ike wasn't higher class than Slick Willie or Hillary?
    Truman wasn't higher class than DJT?

    Go ahead, make your argument.
  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    SN LOL
    He specifically mentioned JKF and Nixon
    Are those examples of "high class" politicians?
    Go ahead . Make your argument.
  6. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Yes, JFK and Nixon were higher caliber than the vast majority of modern day politicians, for the reason stated in bold in huisache's quote.

    After active duty in the Naval Reserve during World War II, he was elected to the House of Representatives in 1946. His work on the Alger Hiss case established his reputation as a leading anti-Communist, which elevated him to national prominence, and in 1950, he was elected to the Senate. Nixon was the running mate of Dwight D. Eisenhower, the Republican Party's presidential nominee in the 1952 election, and served for eight years as the vice president.

    In 1940, Kennedy attempted to enter the army's Officer Candidate School. Despite months of training, he was medically disqualified due to his chronic lower back problems. On September 24, 1941, Kennedy, with the help of the director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and the former naval attaché to Joseph Kennedy, Alan Kirk, joined the United States Naval Reserve. He was commissioned an ensign on October 26, 1941,[40] and joined the staff of the Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington, D.C.[41][42][43]

    His first command was PT-101 from December 7, 1942, until February 23, 1943:[42] It was a patrol torpedo (PT) boat used for training while Kennedy was an instructor at Melville.[47] He then led three Huckins PT boats—PT-98, PT-99, and PT-101, which were being relocated from MTBRON 4 in Melville, Rhode Island, back to Jacksonville, Florida, and the new MTBRON 14 (formed February 17, 1943). During the trip south, he was hospitalized briefly in Jacksonville after diving into the cold water to unfoul a propeller. Thereafter, Kennedy was assigned duty in Panama and later in the Pacific theater, where he eventually commanded two more PT boats.[48]
  7. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    If you really think that is true then bless your heart.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    If I really think what is true? That wartime participation melds men of character?

    Did JFK philander? Yep
    Did Nixon spy on his opponent for no good reason and get caught? Yep

    Both remain much higher caliber men than the maleducated, hyped, packaged, and presented nancy boys who infest modern day politics. (Notice they also tend to screw around, spy on one another, and have media-driven slap fights in an attempt to garner an undeserved reputation.)
  9. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    And I notice you haven't even started to make an argument in favor of modern day politicians being higher class than the old (dead) guys. All you've bothered to do is post an emoji, attempted a couple of mild insults, and dismiss what I have presented without a single sensible word of refutation.
  10. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    My opinion of politicians is based on who does the most to make things better for citizens of our country and who does more to improve America's position in the world.
    Can you sincerely say Trump did not make things better for most Americans?
  11. Horn2RunAgain

    Horn2RunAgain 2,500+ Posts

    No mention of PT-109?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Michael Corleone was a war hero, too. Not in possession of a lot of character, though.
    • Funny Funny x 3
  13. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    No. But he did that while being a divisive, coarse, and unnecessarily crude blowhard. I'm glad we had him for 4 years, extremely glad we had him instead of Hillwilly, and I voted for him to have 4 more.

    I'm not glad to see him wading in for a 2024 run, and I think he could take lessons from Hillwilly in how to quietly fade away.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    When will that happen that she quietly fades away? I thought she spews nonsense any chance she gets.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Agree with all of this, and then you make this comment . . .

    As I say to Switzer, very thin ice.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    All the Kennedy's had an interesting life full of adventure and a Father who demanded excellence at the highest level.

    I think JFK had a great speech writer. That helped him tremendously.

    I thought Obama was very impressive as a speaker. But he was a Liberal. So you know... no bueno.

    The Bush family was not impressive to me. Reagan was impressive as a motivator but I was in a party zone so anybody who could string a few sentences together was impressive. LBJ was a Machiavellian. Not impressive. Ruthless. Forget Ford. Carter was a very moral man in my book. Also very honest, "I have lusted in my heart over other women."

    Nixon probably was the best President from the right. His paranoia was his downfall though I'm not a historian. Watergate was just stupid. He was going to win in a landslide and couldn't trust it.
  17. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    In general the further you go back the politicians were more capable and wise. They also had a classier image. Decorum. Al that stuff was better. It is good that part is going away. It can be a cover for very bad actions. I think of Obama. On the surface he was very polished, polite, respectable. But he did some really heinous things. I would say Bush as well but he didn't get the benefit of the doubt. He was demonized by media.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    And remember generally speaking the media didn't publicly scrutinize every action. Can you imagine today's media and bloggers mostly ignoring JFK's personal life?
    Or even Ike's?
  19. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    The Kennedy money came from being criminals. Bootlegging, etc. Yeah, real class there.

    JFK was a lecherous philanderer who would probably make Clinton and Biden blush. Really classy. He was a POS who almost got us into WWIII. I have never understood the whole fake Camelot BS and admiration for that guy.

    It is really not in doubt that he "won" the election for POTUS because of the influence from their friends in the Chicago mob. Really classy.
    • Like Like x 1
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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  20. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    hic is correct
    We can't forget Joe Kennedy's anti Semitism and support of Hitler.
  21. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Truly awful examples are Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Wilson was a flaming racist even for the day. He also fell in love with his cousin at one point in life. He was a lot like Sheldon in The Big Bang Theory. Sheldon was a thoroughly awful person in fiction. Wilson was all that in real life, including the self righteousness.

    FDR was a philanderer, a communist, and an authoritarian. People know about the Japanese internment. Most don't know about how he jailed small businessmen who didn't follow regulations he dropped on the nation out of nowhere. He was also as much of a bully as LBJ. A very unpleasant person to be around, especially if you were a young attractive woman.
  22. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Good points. He wasn't classy, but he had "cool" image. But he was still more capable in office than those we have had recently.
  23. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I did not know that about Wilson. Media coverage certainly has changed.
  24. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Wilson liked to join organizations including sports teams so he could write team constitutions that would govern how practices were held, member behavior, and other minutiae. He was a psychopath.
  25. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    ] I meant to illustrate just how poor Trump is at fading away by contrasting him with another one who is only slightly less poor at it. In rereading the comment it didn't come across real well.
    • Like Like x 2
  26. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    I wanted to point out that Trump 2020 picked up a net of 6 electoral votes after the 2020 census. It could have been more but the census undercounted red states in 2020.

    I don’t have a current electoral map, but it’s likely possible for GOP to win without winning PA, MI, WI, MN, or NH if they win GA, AZ and NV. Given that FL, NC, IA, and OH seem to be safely GOP of late, then DeSantis only has to campaign in 3 key states. And, send thousands of volunteers to harvest ballots.
  27. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    higher class of politicians: in 1960 JFK picked LBJ to be his running mate. LBJ had been majority leader for some years and had been trained by his mentor, Sam Rayburn. He was a very adroit politician even if you don't like his politics or tactics

    Nixon's running mate was Henry Cabot Lodge---impressive guy. Look him up

    In 2020 Trump had Mike Pence, a sort of mediocrity by all accounts. Biden had Kamala Harris. Enough said.

    I didn't say the 1960s guys were high class, just that they were of a higher class than the present group of pols. Sorry if there was any confusion by my choice of words.
  28. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    That proved to be a fatal mistake.
    • Hot Hot x 1
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    When you lose Breitbart. . .

  30. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    He didn't even know who the guy was. lol

    Big deal.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022

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