Post Right Wing looniness here

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Seattle Husker, May 27, 2021.

  1. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    I never said these weren't opinions. The question has always been whose opinions were followed, what they were, and what was their motivation. I have demonstrated by the quotes of those who best understood the military situation that the motivation wasn't coming from the generals in charge of the armed forces. The motivation came from some other place.
     
  2. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    From the same article Deez quoted from:

    Obviously the starting point of the negotiation was more than they could have reasonably expected to receive. They weren't going to be able to keep land they had won in the war. But look at the wording. Internally Japanese officials were discussing "outright surrender". The replies the US diplomats received is different than this statement about internal communications. You have to use your inference skills a bit here.

    This shows that the public statements and the private discussions were a bit different on both sides, as expected in a negotiations. You don't show your hand at the first. The other point is that Japan's understanding early on was that the emperor would not remain ceremonial head of state. It is at least one reason they didn't agree sooner. Remember the timeline of negotiation was thought to be November 1945. The atomics likely shortened the timeline. But the end result even without a ground invasion, according to military leaders, would have been similar.
     
  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    And yet Japan did not surrender until after the bombs
    Only a complete idiot would think there would not have been more American and Allied deaths between Aug and supposed Nov timeline
    Why do you ignore that?
     
  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Yes, but some nameless officials discussing surrender isn't surrender or even receptiveness by the people with authority, which was the imperial Supreme War Council. They had authority, and they were deadlocked until the Emperor himself broke the tie - after the atomic bombs were dropped.

    They didn't agree sooner, because they were deadlocked - even after the bombs were dropped. 3 out of the 6 basically said, "screw them. They can nuke us until our whole country and race are dead."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Wow, you guys are so interesting. All I can contribute is my Dad said the bombs ended Japan’s resolve, but he was flying over Germany so what did he know. Sorry, not being trite, just sayin.
     
  6. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Showa held the authority in that place and time. He overruled everyone after he saw the devastation of Tokyo after the fire bombings.
     
  7. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    And after the war was won, we had bigger fish to fry in the Pacific theatre than punishing our former enemies. MacArthur was very wise with Japan. Build them back up--on our side. Showa led them into our camp to stay, and they have prospered above and beyond all other Asian nations (even more than they had before the war). There's an electric synergy between our cultures, as different as they might be in some ways.

    I haven't come anywhere remotely close to "seeing it all." But based on what I've seen, I want Japan on our side in the next big war. We make a very good team.
     
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  8. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Princess Kako says welcome!
     
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  9. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    I would think that Monarchies almost automatically fall under Right Wing Looniness...

    Monarchism is Classical Conservatism after all.

    I posted somewhere on this website that the only genocides of the 20th Century led by conservative forces were those done by Leopold of Belgium and Showa of Japan. Classical conservatism anyways. What is now called "conservatism" in America looks kind of like "Classical Liberalism." These guys were monarchists. One of them had no limits on the numbers he would sacrifice and kill to make more $$$$ (Leopold). The other was the de-facto supposed man-god leader of a national religious cult at least 2,000 years old that held that their race descended from the supposed sun-goddess, and they were therefore superior to the rest of mankind and destined to rule all (Showa).

    Today's Belgians are harmless chocolate makers, and beer brewers, and often-attractive blond females.

    Today's Japanese are friendly allies, highly competent, very clean and orderly people who almost never commit crimes. And they're obsessed with us and U.S. culture.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  10. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    I remember as early as the late 1990s they (the IJN's successors the Naval Self-Defense Forces or something...) started flying the old IJN spaghetti and meatball flags on their warships, and we were encouraging it. China had conniption fits; even S. Korea didn't care for it much.

    If they're gonna be a dog in our pack, better be a dog with some balls.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    That's interesting. I can't imagine the Deutsche Marine flying one of their old flags (like this) on their ships. If they did, people would literally go to jail.

    Bundesarchiv_Bild_101II-MN-1009-39,_Dänemark,_Reichskriegsflagge.jpg
     
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Never been into Asian chicks, but she's pretty cute.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I think there's a lot of truth to what he said. They had a similar effect to the strategic bombing of Germany. He would have seen what happened to places like Hamburg, Köln, and Berlin. It wasn't pretty.

    Side note - do you know what base your dad flew from? I assume it was a RAF base.
     
  14. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Deez are you agreeing with the Belgian blondes (are we talking about beer or women?) or the other stuff chop said?
     
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I agree with his point - and about Belgian blondes - the beers and the women.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

  17. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Not obsessed with making babies so much as not slaughtering them once they have been made.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Sorry to burst some bubbles, but in August of 1945, there was no Japanese Air Force. So, despite training Soldiers and Marines for a land invasion, the US would have started in the South and Tokyo regions and systematically leveled the country. That might have been more favorable to some than the two nukes, but in the end, destroying an entire country would have been worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    Agree Vipe
    And more Americans and Allies would have been killed.
    Do not understand how those who think we shouldn't have used the bombs are ok with more Americans dying.
    Have asked that question here but got no reply.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    I answered that your base assumptions are false.
     
  21. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    My dad (signal corps) was on Kyushu before the surrender and told me the Japanese were armed but starving when he got there

    also said there was a horrendous typhoon on the date of the proposed invasion in November. It was a surprise because meteorology was primitive. We might have had a reprise Tsushima if we had sailed an invasion fleet into it
     
  22. Horn6721

    Horn6721 Hook'em

    I consider my base assumptions to be that IF the war had continued to Nov 1945 American and Allied military would have died. What is false about that?
     
  23. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Remember? They were just about to surrender and be peaceful. We were just too impatient, unreasonable, and bloodthirsty.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  24. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    That's right! Just like Israel!

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Chop

    Chop 10,000+ Posts

    Little known fact: the Japanese are not indigenous to Japan. The Yamato people crossed over from Korea and conquered the indigenous people of Japan--the Ainu--a mysterious race of tall hairy people. There's still several thousand of them in existence, living on reservations on the North Island of Hokkaido with high rates of alcoholism and unemployment. They're celebrated today by the Japanese as tough and noble warriors (but greatly outnumbered). And their crafts and designs are popular. So many comparisons with the US.

    So I guess the Yamato of ancient times were the "right wing loonies", conquering the Ainu (who, of course, must have been peaceful and nature-loving :rolleyes1::rolleyes1::rolleyes1:).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  26. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I don't know if this is a looney story, but have you heard about Kristi Noem publishing a book where she recounts shooting her 14 month old dog because it ruined a pheasant hunt? She said it was unpleasant and worth less than zero.
     
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    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  27. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    You worked for Truman in the 40s?
     
  28. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

  29. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    How dare I agree with Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Nimitz. Those unAmerican ********.
     
  30. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    As we've seen even today rank doesn't actually mean they possess outstanding judgment.
     

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